Followup Review from the Boutique Gear Snob.

J

JoeDeLano

Member
I've spent a bit over a month now with the Axe-Fx II. At this point, I had found myself sick of all the hassles of complicated setups and tempermental boutique gear.
So, I consider myself to be very unbiased. I reeealy wanted (and still do if I can be proven wrong) the Axe-Fx to be my final gear solution.
But, despite all of my intense enjoyment there are a few issues that I just can't come to terms with:

There seems to be a common "studio polished" quality with all Axe-Fx patches.
-I've made many patches with drastically different settings and downloaded other users patches.
-Present in all situations: recorded(with all sims on), live through power amp or FX return of amp.
-Makes any situation sound like a studio recording to more or less effect. (Yes I've run with and without cab, mic, grid modeling and poweramp sims)
-I realize that for many this is considered a good thing... ha ha
-I just seem to be addicted to that raw sound quality that I cannot, for the life of me, find in the Axe (nor have I heard it in any posted recordings or tone matching previews)

I can't say that the Axe-FX doesn't sound 3D, but there is definitely a subtle, extra quality present when running straight into a boutique amp.
-Just seems to sound very slightly thicker and fuller with any settings or guitar
-Slightly more organic and "right in front of you" sound.
-I feel more connected to a real amp than the Axe when playing.

Conclusion:

If you want top-notch, professional studio quality sounds, the Axe-Fx is king! In a blindfolded comparison of studio recorded and mastered analog vs. Axe, I myself may not be able to tell the difference.
I may justify keeping the Axe for convenient recording and live situations.

If you are a lover and scrutinizer of every aspect of boutique amp tones, I cannot honestly recommend the Axe-Fx II.
You can tweak all day and it seems that you never quite get there. Its so close (5-10% difference) and I think the day will be here soon when any guitarist can happily make the digital transition, but it seems as if there
may still be a very slight amount of work to be done.

I know this will probably piss a few people off and to many it won't matter, but I don't think its right for people to go on thinking that the sound is exactly the same.
I also don't wan't this to discourage anyone who has found themselves totally satisfied with the Axe, and still stand by all of the positive things I said in my initial review.
I just wanted to share my very very honest opinion.
 
With the changes in 6.0 on the horizon I would give it another chance. Never know, it just might be what your looking for. It's a constantly changing product and what you don't like about it today you could love tomorrow.
 
If you're hooked on "in the room" sounds, I dunno that it's going to scratch that itch any time soon. :(
 
Power amp and guitar cab. Solves everything. IMO. I like the sound of the real cabinets. I think it's the only way to get that "in the room" feeling of a real amp.
 
I've spent most of my time running them with that very configuration. And it does make a tremendous difference. But the qualities I described are still just slightly present.
Like I said 5-10% difference at most. But for years people have been paying serious cash for that extra something in gear...
 
I take none of your post to necessarily be negative in terms of the capabilities of the AxeFx. The fact that you've alluded to not being able to separate the AxeFx from the original in a blind test recording is a solid testament IMO. Also, that you feel the AxeFx can get you up to 95% of the tone of a tube amp costing (in many cases) multiples of the cost of an AxeFx is also not too shabby. This is pretty much what I'd expect to hear from a self-proclaimed "tube snob" at best, so once again, I say that in context, not the worst thing you could say about the AxeFx.

IMO, the strength of the AxeFx is that it is extremely versatile sonically in ways that no other modeler can currently rival. For many guitarists, if you have the choice between getting modeled tones that are within 90%-95% of 10 different tube amplifiers in a performance situation - OR - carrying around those 10 physical amplifiers to play through, it is an entirely reasonable and justifiable choice to go with the AxeFx. And, once in context, that 5-10% difference gets more blurred anyway, right? Very powerful AND practical.

But I can understand that if a guitarist is only looking for that ONE THING, and only that ONE thing will do the trick, that is a level of personal specificity of tone/vibe/feel that can only be appreciated on an individual basis. I would be willing to bet that even amongst tube amp purists you would find discrepancies of taste as to what exact combination is preferred, and contains that extra 5% of mojo that puts the guitarist over the top. Even to the point where no two tube amps coming off the assembly line will sound exactly, precisely the same, and that one may sound "better" than the other. There is simply no winning some battles. The fact that the AxeFx can even join the conversation is a testament IMO. As we stand, the tube is still the holy grail, but the gap is narrowing.

One thing that I think the forum would find very valuable is (if you would be so generous):

- sample recordings of your real tube amps vs. the AxeFx tones
- .syx file preset(s) of the AxeFx used in those recordings
- (for the record) a detailed list of the gear used in creating AxeFx tones (guitars, amps, cabinets, etc.)

FWIW, the forum could then weigh in and exact its pound of flesh! LOL
 
I agree and really don't have anything actually negative to say about the Axe-Fx. As you and I pointed out, my concerns are actually positive for many!
I'm not sure its worth posting comparison clips... Unless I consciously tried to make them sound different recorded they will sound far far too similar... ha ha.

I would never disagree with anyone that says that the Axe is amazing.
 
JoeDeLano said:
I know this will probably piss a few people off and to many it won't matter, but I don't think its right for people to go on thinking that the sound is exactly the same.
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I would agree there, even though my vintage tube amp experience is limited.

I did write before 2 or three times some time ago what my experience was after visiting a collector of old vintage amps.

I didn't compare them recorded (I didn't compare at all), so not judging on that.

What was left for me was:
- when I pick on the Axe, it feels like 60 to 75% strength, and I can go to 100% The real amps somehow gave me the illusion I could go way beyond 100%. These dynamics also add to the connectedness a lot (wheras the Axe might "disconnect" you at 100%?). It may have to do with how the tone / feel changed more when digging in, and that would be my second remark.
- most of his amps, when digging in, the tone seemed to become much "narrower"/focused (if you like that or not). It may be in the Axe, but I don't recall experiencing it in such a way.

So those would be my opinion w regard to vintage amps only.

I believe at least the first point might get better with v6 :)
The 2nd one can probably be made so already with some programming.
It's not that I absolutely want that (I didn't even know it up till then), but it sure is a clear difference to me that makes me wonder about the "no difference" crowd.
Again, it may be in the Axe, cause it's deep and I don't use it day and night. OTOH, I would expect any vintage amp preset to have it!
 
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Frankly, its the studio-polished qualities of the Axe that really won me over. I hate the harshness of live, raw amps. Something about them (most of the time) really sounds amateur-ish (to me). I hope that despite the improvements made with new versions, that the polished qualities is never lost in attempts to make the amp sims more and more real. At least, give people the option of going for the studio-polished tone in addition to the raw amp tones.
 
claxor said:
I hate the harshness of live, raw amps.
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Maybe that's just what's needed/lacking? ;) You remind me of this:

Pete Thorn about critique on his "harsh" Axe-FX II clips:

With all due respect to the guys who think things are too bright, I think that alot of guys just don't realize how bright and edgy alot of what we consider "classic" tones really are. I GO for bright tones because you need that high end, IMO, to cut through a band and a mix. EVH, Pete Townsend, alot of Page, the tones are BRIGHT brash and snotty. Not really that pleasant to listen to on their own but in a mix they are just right.

I learned this when I put an Ecstacy blue channel up against a 67 plexi in the studio. I finally got what all the fuss was about- the plexi was like a wild horse, bordering on out of control- whereas the Bogner, while a nice sounding amp and fun to play through, coming out of a Bogner 2-12" sounded "like an already recorded guitar tone, coming out of studio monitors".

If it's too pretty, it ain't going to move you and cut through like the classic tones we all know and love did.

Anyways, these are stock speaker sims as well- in my Axe Ultra, I have Red Wirez greenback/57 on cap edge sims loaded, and those sound even brighter than the stock speaker sims. And I use em! Because they sound really real. You can take my word for it or not, but I sit in front of studio monitors all day listening to a greenback mic'd with a 57 through API's- I know what it sounds like. The Red Wirez are really close. For some reason, this tester Axe 2 I borrowed didn't have any Red Wirez IR's loaded (I think the production Axe 2 is supposed to come stock with a bunch of Red Wirez IR's).
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Just as an aside. No point of criticism from me (I'm too much of a toob-amp-noob ;)).
 
Joe - I'd concur with your findings - but honestly I wouldn't expect any modeller to be an exact clone of the real thing - it's how close it gets that matters. I'm not a purist - not even close in fact now - because I tend to start with an amp type and then do something to it to make it behave/sound like I want it to - usually something you can't do on the real thing without opening it up and messing with the circuitry.

I don't mind a 5 to 10% difference in a trade off against owning a roomful of real amps and having to make a decision on which one gets dragged out on stage or to a rehearsal room. I'd still love a roomful of amps just to play with but sadly it's not feasible in my case.

That's just the live scenario - but as you say, when it comes to a tool for laying some authentic sounding tracks with minimum hassle I think the Axe is currently at the top of the heap.

I know M@ won't kiss and tell - but I'd bet a good few of those touring pros out there that use the Axe primarily as an FX unit in the loops of their (endorsed?) amps/rigs also have fully amp and cab blocked presets in there as a disaster backup and I'm guessing not too many in the audience would spot the difference from the PA.
 
vAmp said:
Maybe that's just what's needed/lacking? ;) You remind me of this:

Just as an aside. No point of criticism from me (I'm too much of a toob-amp-noob ;)).
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Actually, I think you are quite right. The tones that I care most about are pretty much impossible to recreate accurately with a live analog tube rig. I love the record albums sounds more than the live sounds. Most people never complained about that difference because they love the raw, thump in your chest, etc.

Even as a kid just starting guitar, I was ALWAYS frustrated that I could never really get seriously close to the sounds I heard on my guitar hero's albums.

Again, I agree with you, vAmp. I'll even take your point one step further for you. If there are so many guitarists that love the raw, live amp sound so much, why even allow for the polished studio tones when you record an album? Why don't they aim for raw-ness all the way?
 
I think some guitarists do aim for a rawer sound all the way. And I still agree with everything that has been said.
Alot of the rawness and feel just contributes to my playing. I feel more at home and connected to the whole rig.

When the time comes to record, I still want to have that feeling translate onto the tracks. Then they can be processed and polished into the mix.

This is probably an "old-School" mindset that will fade as digital equipment becomes more prominent. Digital is certainly far more versatile and convenient!
 
Hey Joe (sounds oddly familiar...)

Man, no one should get mad for you saying the Axe Fx isn't everything to everyone. I'd bet Cliff himself would agree with that. But what it is sounds pretty amazing and solves a lot of issues for a lot of folks (obviously, me included!). And you are pretty clear you agree on that. In the end what really matters is that you get the sound that you want. If, for whatever reason, the Axe Fx doesn't get you there then you should use whatever does!

But I would hang on to that black box if I were you... that sound will grow on you! And one day you may look up and see much less glowing glass in your stable than used to be there. It happened to me! But, no one says you can't have it all... maybe just not all in one place. :)
 
JoeDeLano said:
I think some guitarists do aim for a rawer sound all the way. And I still agree with everything that has been said.
Alot of the rawness and feel just contributes to my playing. I feel more at home and connected to the whole rig.

When the time comes to record, I still want to have that feeling translate onto the tracks. Then they can be processed and polished into the mix.

This is probably an "old-School" mindset that will fade as digital equipment becomes more prominent. Digital is certainly far more versatile and convenient!
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I can absolutely understand where you are coming from, Joe. In the end, it's what moves you in the artistic process. I'm just so happy that now, there is the option to go all out studio-quality if the guitarist wants to. Having that option really is wonderful, and in my case, it was emotional. :)
 
claxor said:
I'll even take your point one step further for you. If there are so many guitarists that love the raw, live amp sound so much, why even allow for the polished studio tones when you record an album? Why don't they aim for raw-ness all the way?
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It's not really *my* point, but I made clever note of it ;)

If you feel that way, I guess it's a side-effect of mixing and fitting instruments in w compresssion, EQ, hi-cut, ... I don't think studios are using a specific process esp. to make the rawness go to hi-fi? Maybe they could help it something either way, though. Most guitar sounds serve another artist anyway, so often not that important if they would or would not be able to retain a possible percentage of rawness that would otherwise disappear (except for the player maybe).
 
More agreement all around. I know its probably unreasonable, but I'd be in heaven if the Axe-Fx could clone with 100% accuracy and then tweak for improvements.
Perhaps in the near future.
 
I didn't find anything in there to get worked up over. Its your honest opinion and you backed up all your comments pretty well. And the 'polished' statement is pretty much how I feel about it sometimes as well. I am kind of in the same boat in terms of gear selection; I say that I like the 'farts and warts' you get when something isn't perfect and the AxeFXII just doesn't have a lot of the subtle imperfections that I find charming. But I will say that it's a damn site closer than the Ultra was and just like any piece of gear you have a mix of compromises and just plain getting accustom to it. I found that after a year with the more refined sound that going with other gear was actually a disappointment.

But it really comes down to one thing for me and that is that there is simply no other device out there that delivers as much as well. Is it exactly like having 70 amazing amps in a room with hundreds of cabs and pedals? No. But its as close to it as I'll ever get and with what it has available to me I simply can't find anything that beats it and that doesn't even address the convenience factor.

But once again, that's my personal scenario. If I had a room full of amps that I loved I know that it would be really tough to leave them turned off. If you got what you're looking for already than there's no reason to feel like you have to apologize for it.
 
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