FOH + using a cab

Galen Cane

Galen Cane

Inspired
If I'm running my Axe-FX through a Marshall 4x12 I've got the cab sim bypassed but if I'm going through the PA I'll need it switched on.

How do I do both at the same time?
 
Yes. I run it this way and love it. Best of both worlds. Easiest to just set cab block with all the same cab types across all patches. IMHO of course.
 
Wouldnt having this setup make it difficult to hard tweak?
Because yr marshall 4x12 will put out a different tone to what your sending via the axe to FOH.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
shayne202 said:
Wouldnt having this setup make it difficult to hard tweak?
Because yr marshall 4x12 will put out a different tone to what your sending via the axe to FOH.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Not that big of a difference really....especially if you get a cab sim that sounds close to your real cabinet. Works great! Again...just set same cab sims on all patches and it's a breeze.
 
I have to kind of agree, whats the point in using the cab if your just giving the audience the IR sim ?

Wouldn't you want your guitar to sound the same to the crowd as your hearing it on stage ?

In addition, seems like a lot of extra hassle dragging a 4x12 around just to use it for monitoring on stage, and perhaps looking cooler because you have an amp on stage.

I'd rather just use some IEM's on stage, have nothing heavy to carry, and be able to control stage volumes and get an ideal monitor mix, but that's just me.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I have to kind of agree, whats the point in using the cab if your just giving the audience the IR sim ? Wouldn't you want your guitar to sound the same to the crowd as your hearing it on stage ? In addition, seems like a lot of extra hassle dragging a 4x12 around just to use it for monitoring on stage, and perhaps looking cooler because you have an amp on stage. I'd rather just use some IEM's on stage, have nothing heavy to carry, and be able to control stage volumes and get an ideal monitor mix, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

I like 3-D swirl of have a real cab onstage. Gives a punch of air moving and really has to be tried before you knock it. It really gives the band the punch and you still get the front of house nice clean signal as well.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I have to kind of agree, whats the point in using the cab if your just giving the audience the IR sim ?
Click to expand...

For me it has to do with filling the stage for my band mates and speaker interaction for sweet harmonic feedback. Also it just plain "feels" like it should, because it is the real thing.

lqdsnddist said:
Wouldn't you want your guitar to sound the same to the crowd as your hearing it on stage ?
Click to expand...

If you spend a little time you can get to sound exactly the same. In fact if you go so far as to shoot some IR of the same cab, the difference is indistinguishable. The main difference in my experience is the guitar/speaker interaction. A guitar speaker is designed for it, an FRFR speaker is not.

lqdsnddist said:
In addition, seems like a lot of extra hassle dragging a 4x12 around just to use it for monitoring on stage, and perhaps looking cooler because you have an amp on stage.
Click to expand...

I don't know about others, but I definitely do not do this to "look cool," in fact my 412 is usually positioned as a side wash across the stage, so it's not really visible. The point is the sound, the feel, and the interaction.

lqdsnddist said:
I'd rather just use some IEM's on stage, have nothing heavy to carry, and be able to control stage volumes and get an ideal monitor mix, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Actually since going with the 412, the stage volume has gone down because the FRFR disperses 90x90 whereas the 412 beams it straight across the stage. Previously we had to have my guitar cranked in all the monitors, now it's not even in the monitors except for the drummer, and is literally 1/2 the overall stage volume.

As for heavy stuff to carry. The 412 has casters. I put everything else on top of it and use it as a cart.
 
Tremonti said:
I like 3-D swirl of have a real cab onstage. Gives a punch of air moving and really has to be tried before you knock it. It really gives the band the punch and you still get the front of house nice clean signal as well.
Click to expand...

I've tried it plenty, and got plenty of sore backs and banged up knuckles from trying to get my 1960a cab up and down stairs, through narrow hallways and doors etc. Just never was an overly fun part of the gig for me.

I've always had issues with stage volume as well and trying to get a good balance where I could hear myself, and the other guitarist. Usually it would be a battle of both turning up louder so we could hear our guitar better, which just makes everyone else turn up louder lol.

With everyone going direct I personally found it so much easier because we could all have what we wanted in the monitor feed, and stage volumes were so much lower, letting the FOH mix end up being better.

I do get that its cool getting the air moving, and its nice to feel your pant leg flap which each palm muted down stroke, and all that, but to me at least, the disadvantages outweigh it.

I used to sort of have the attitude where I just wanted to hear myself sounding good, I wanted to get to crank my rig up, and I really didn't care much about the audience (because frankly it was usually just a few drunks lol). Anymore though, I've come to care more about what sound is going to the FOH and I'm not playing for myself, I'm playing for the fans (or fan lol), and I'm trying to be a good bandmate by not overpowering the other members.

To me, one of the great things about the AxeII, is that I can get the same sound I hear to the audience.

It gets around the issue of having my guitar sound good to me on stage, but then having the crowd hear it sounding like thin crap. With the Axe, if it sounds good to me though the monitors, or IEM's, its going to sound the same, or similar at least, through the house PA, and I can get that sound anywhere.

Less gear to carry, less hurting my ears with high stage volumes, and the ability to constantly get a reproducible tone. That has kind of been the grail for me since I first bought a POD, and the Axe II really made it a reality

In fairness though, I still do have a JCM800 lead series cab sitting in my basement with some vintage Greenbacks, just for the visceral thrill of cranking it up and moving that air sometimes ;)
 
lqdsnddist said:
Said: lots of stuff that I couldn't agree with more!
Click to expand...

Yep, you nailed it for me
thumbsup.gif


Neat and tidy... perfect for one's OCD!
laughing.gif


Coverd-Stage.jpg


Four-piece band, self-contained sound and lighting rig (excl. silver cans in venue rigging) all set up and ready to rock with no soundcheck necessary within in one hour of arriving at venue
thumbsup.gif
 
Galen, I run my Axe just as you're describing, and it's been great! We use IEMs, but I wanted to have a live cab to feel some air moving and to get some controlled feedback when the moment calls for it.

I also put the fx loop block just before the cab block, and then goosed some of the lower end frequencies on the output 2 graphic EQ going to the live cab in order to get more air moving without cranking the stage volume too much.

I love the diversity on this forum with how everyone has their own method for what works for them. There's a lot of wisdom here. Just experiment until you find out what works best for your needs. That's the fun part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
psycle_1 said:
Put the FX loop right before the cab block. Use output 2 to feed the power amp/Marshall 4x12, output 1 to FOH.
Click to expand...

While this a cool idea, what about the effects (delay, reverb, etc...) that are after the cabinet block? Provided if you are using a complex patch I find this is a bit to dry (raw) sounding.
 
Sharka said:
While this a cool idea, what about the effects (delay, reverb, etc...) that are after the cabinet block? Provided if you are using a complex patch I find this is a bit to dry (raw) sounding.
Click to expand...

Put reverb and delays etc. between the amp and cab sim, and before the fx block. This way, the fx goes both to the FOH and the cabinet onstage.
 
wembley said:
Put reverb and delays etc. between the amp and cab sim, and before the fx block. This way, the fx goes both to the FOH and the cabinet onstage.
Click to expand...

That would be Logical... but I'm sure that is not going to sound quite the same. At least from an FRFR (FOH) experience.

However, I would be curious to hear what it sounds like...
 
JustinYork said:
Galen, I run my Axe just as you're describing, and it's been great! We use IEMs, but I wanted to have a live cab to feel some air moving and to get some controlled feedback when the moment calls for it.

I also put the fx loop block just before the cab block, and then goosed some of the lower end frequencies on the output 2 graphic EQ going to the live cab in order to get more air moving without cranking the stage volume too much.

I love the diversity on this forum with how everyone has their own method for what works for them. There's a lot of wisdom here. Just experiment until you find out what works best for your needs. That's the fun part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I use an IEM in the ear closest to the drummer (so I don't go deaf and to hear the band) and on the other side of me I have a Matrix Q12 on a stand at shoulder height. I can get great controlled feedback just by turning the guitar to the Matrix. My Engl 2x12 v30s sits at home.
 
Sharka said:
That would be Logical... but I'm sure that is not going to sound quite the same. At least from an FRFR (FOH) experience.

However, I would be curious to hear what it sounds like...
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound exactly the same, but it sounds great. This is what you would do in the eighites, putting time based fx between the preamp and the poweramp ;)
 
wembley said:
Doesn't sound exactly the same, but it sounds great. This is what you would do in the eighites, putting time based fx between the preamp and the poweramp ;)
Click to expand...

Good point... I'm using these for "live" patches anyway... So why not? Couldn't hurt to make a few test patches to sample during the week at my next rehearsal.

Cheers.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I have to kind of agree, whats the point in using the cab if your just giving the audience the IR sim ?

Wouldn't you want your guitar to sound the same to the crowd as your hearing it on stage ?

In addition, seems like a lot of extra hassle dragging a 4x12 around just to use it for monitoring on stage, and perhaps looking cooler because you have an amp on stage.

I'd rather just use some IEM's on stage, have nothing heavy to carry, and be able to control stage volumes and get an ideal monitor mix, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Nice rig. Are you running playback and switching via a laptop, if so, what kind?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom