Focusrite 18i20 I/O sound quality

[AdmiralB]

If I understand properly, you're comparing the audio output of the Axe directly, to the audio output of the Scarlett after taking OUT 1 of the Axe. Is this correct?

If so, you're doing a second set of A/D and D/A conversion with the Scarlett. Not a surprise that there's a difference (although maybe a surprise that it's audible).

In any case, your complaint is with the D/A side of the Scarlett, and while that's 'not nothing', it's not necessarily affecting what you're printing, right?

Have you tried recording the Axe direct-to-PC then using both it and the Scarlett as playbacks, and A/B comparing?

I have an 18i20; I don't know that I've ever directly compared it to the Axe output. I'll give it a shot soon.

 

[stink]

If I understand properly, you're comparing the audio output of the Axe directly, to the audio output of the Scarlett after taking OUT 1 of the Axe. Is this correct?

Yes.

If so, you're doing a second set of A/D and D/A conversion with the Scarlett. Not a surprise that there's a difference (although maybe a surprise that it's audible). In any case, your complaint is with the D/A side of the Scarlett, and while that's 'not nothing', it's not necessarily affecting what you're printing, right?

The audible difference is most certainly noticeable. The thing that really brought it to my attention was using a patch (Atomica amp model) with the TC2290. Using the Axe III alone, monitoring with Event Opals, the sound seems to come "from beyond" the monitors and totally 3D. Once configured with the Focusrite, and monitors connected to that interface, the sound now seems confined to within the stereo field and no longer 3D and open.

Have you tried recording the Axe direct-to-PC then using both it and the Scarlett as playbacks, and A/B comparing?

I'll perform an A/B test of the actual printing tonight which will be straight USB to Reaper then S/PDIF through the Focusrite to Reaper. It just bugs me they don't sound the same.

 

[AdmiralB]

The audible difference is most certainly noticeable.

I didn't intend to suggest that you're imagining it - sorry if it came across as such. I meant that if that is really the issue - it's just an artifact of the second conversion set - then it doesn't speak well to the Scarlett.

I usually use headphones when tracking, but I'll give it a shot with my monitors too. Of course, mine (JBL LSR308s) are nowhere near the same class as Opals...

 

[stink]

I didn't intend to suggest that you're imagining it - sorry if it came across as such. I meant that if that is really the issue - it's just an artifact of the second conversion set - then it doesn't speak well to the Scarlett.

Oh, no worries, I know what you meant.

I usually use headphones when tracking, but I'll give it a shot with my monitors too. Of course, mine (JBL LSR308s) are nowhere near the same class as Opals...

Thanks for your help. Those Opals were expensive but they sound damn good AND the patches dialed in on them sound almost identical once translated to my CLR's. That's saying something about the accuracy of the CLR's for sure!

 

[Pettymusic]

Maybe I wasn’t clear, I want the recording level fairly hot (-6) but I don’t want to hear it loud in comparison to the other tracks when overdubbing. By using the interface I’m able to control this easily, the problem is that the interface sucks tone out of the signal. Like I mentioned in my OP, when using the Axe III (or previous renditions) as THE sound card, I can’t balance the sound how I like it during playback. If I physically use the OUT 1 knob for overall sound, it raises or lowers ALL tracks the same. Same with using master faders in Reaper. Am I missing something?

BTW, this is how I have it configured (minus the separate controller to the main monitors. Mine are connected to the Focusrite) https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...n-to-rme-fireface-ufx-ii.142411/#post-1703165

To answer your question about type of music, it’s generally hard rock, with the occasional acoustic or melodic stuff thrown in.

I believe I ended up solving this with a limiter set up on the master fader, which in turn, allowed me crank the playback to get better balance with the recorded. -6 to -12 is where I’m hitting on the way in as well. I’ll be back at my set up later today. I’ll go over my set up and see if there something I missed so far that may be able to help you out.

 

[Pettymusic]

I spent some time going over my setup today. I just have a limiter on the master out. I also noticed that I crank the drum track a bit in order to help Balance against the recorded track.

 

[AdmiralB]

I fiddled around some this evening. I didn't use monitors, though, because I'm currently rebuilding my recording rack (added a Helix Rack I got on the cheap). I played a bunch with headphones (Sony 7506, not the best but not the worst); I used the headphone out of the Axe, versus the headphone monitor of the Scarlett - using analog in from the Axe.

I can't tell any differences. I tried both dry patches, and very wet ones. So, one or more of the following must be true:

1. The problem is patch-sensitive (maybe share the one you're using?), and/or;
2. My ears suck, and/or;
3. Your Scarlett has some issues unique to it, and/or;
4. It's all in your head, and/or;
5. My monitoring isn't of sufficient quality/clarity to reveal the issue, and/or;
   
6. Something(s) of which I haven't conceived.

I don't seriously think that it's number 4 - and I hope you're not insulted that I even included it - but technically it is a possibility I reckon. I also don't see how it could realistically be number 1. But the others all seem to be possible.

 

[stink]

I spent some time going over my setup today. I just have a limiter on the master out. I also noticed that I crank the drum track a bit in order to help Balance against the recorded track.

Yeah, that’s what I used to do as well before getting the interface, use a limiter on the master and crank other things to make a playback level I could use. Too much fiddling around though. Thanks for checking.

 

[stink]

I fiddled around some this evening. I didn't use monitors, though, because I'm currently rebuilding my recording rack (added a Helix Rack I got on the cheap). I played a bunch with headphones (Sony 7506, not the best but not the worst); I used the headphone out of the Axe, versus the headphone monitor of the Scarlett - using analog in from the Axe.

I can't tell any differences. I tried both dry patches, and very wet ones. So, one or more of the following must be true:

1. The problem is patch-sensitive (maybe share the one you're using?), and/or;
2. My ears suck, and/or;
3. Your Scarlett has some issues unique to it, and/or;
4. It's all in your head, and/or;
5. My monitoring isn't of sufficient quality/clarity to reveal the issue, and/or;
   
6. Something(s) of which I haven't conceived.

I don't seriously think that it's number 4 - and I hope you're not insulted that I even included it - but technically it is a possibility I reckon. I also don't see how it could realistically be number 1. But the others all seem to be possible.

Ha ha! No. Not insulted at all. Although I think all of us have been there many times before.

I’ll have time to make some more in depth tests today. I suspect it will boil down to the quality of the output from the 18i20 going to the monitors but not necessarily printing it. Those monitors are really quite revealing. Thanks for doing those tests!

 

[stink]

Update: ok, so this is what I discovered using the 18i20. I used S/PDIF for the dry, re-amp signal, AXE III OUTPUT 4 to Focusrite analog Chanel’s 3 and 4. This was all done using the AXE III as the sound card.

My first tracks were recorded using the Fractal drivers over USB into Reaper, so a wet track and the DI. Big, lush, 3D tone. Then I configured the 18i20, sent the dry signal from Reaper, through the 18i20, and back into the AXE III then out again into Reaper for the re-amp.

The lush, 3D sound collapsed somewhat while listening to the playback from the 18i20. After the re-amping completed, I reconnected the AXE III and listened to the playback. The re-amped track was identical to the original wet track, and just as lush.

So, from my perspective, I think the problem is the output signal from the 18i20 is not as pristine as the signal coming out AXE III because the actual printed track sounded identical when listening to the playback through the AXE III.

Sometimes it really sucks to be able to hear these minute differences.

Thanks guys for trying to find a solution. Rock on, that is all!