FM9 + Loop switcher

Hi everyone, in the process of getting myself an FM9 but have a few questions about adding a loop switcher and its functionality.
I have a few analog OD and delay pedals i would like to add into the effects loop of the FM9 but would like these to be midi controlled using something like the RJM Mini Gizmo or Morningstar ML5.

I'll try to best explain my exact question as i'm a little unsure how to explain it, but here goes...

I would like to assign foot switches on the FM9 to the loops on the loop switcher using CC midi commands.
For instance:
Loop 1 - FS1 on the FM9
Loop 2 - FS2 on the FM9
Loop 3 - FS3 on the FM9
etc

Then within the FM9 preset, i control the on / off states of the loop switcher so loops go off when i switch certain scenes.
For example:
Scene 1 - i want to add Loop 1 so i hit FS1 but in Scene 2 i want Loop 1 to be off so set FS1 off -
When i go back to Scene 1 will FS1 and Loop 1 on the loop switcher remain on?? Sorry if that doesn't make sense!

Maybe another way of asking my question is when you change toggle states of a midi assigned footswitch does the FM9 send a toggle message (whether on or off) when switching scenes?

Thanks very much and hope you can help
Alex
 
Its more of question whether the FM9 automatically sends a 'off' cc message when i switch scenes and want the footswitch / loop disabled within a scene.
The FM9 doesn't send any MIDI messages automatically. It will only send what you tell it to send.
 
Thanks, yes i've worked out i would need to use the scene Midi block.
Its more of question whether the FM9 automatically sends a 'off' cc message when i switch scenes and want the footswitch / loop disabled within a scene.
You don't have to use Scene Midi. You can also use Control Switch midi...
 
The FM9 doesn't send any MIDI messages automatically. It will only send what you tell it to send.
But if I had a footswitch programmed to send a cc toggle on/off message to the looper, would the FM9 send the off message to the looper if the footswitch was off within a scene?
 
But if I had a footswitch programmed to send a cc toggle on/off message to the looper, would the FM9 send the off message to the looper if the footswitch was off within a scene?
Footswitches are not on or off...

They merely represent the state of what they are assigned to control.

The only way to send midi directly with a switch is using Control Switch midi.

It has no "toggle” option... Only the option to send a midi payload.

The Scene Midi block sends midi when then scene is loaded. It sends exactly what it is programmed to send.
 
Yes, the programmable looper is not sending open/closed commands to each loop, but instead the ' state' of each loop is stored in one program. So for instance, program 1 has loops 1 and 3 engaged, all others off, program 2 had loops 2 and 4 engaged, and program 3 has all loops closed. Thus, if you want loop 2 to be on, and next want it to be off, those are two different programs you recall with a CC message.

So if you have 5 loops, all you need is 32 programs:
  • all off (1 option)
  • 1 loop on (5 options)
  • 2 loops on (4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 10 options)
  • 3 loops on (6 + 3 + 1 = 10 options)
  • 4 loops on (5 options)
  • all 5 loops on (1 option)
 
If you want multiple or single ML5 loops to come on (or turn off) strictly according to scene changes, you want to use PC messages. This will make it so (for example) Scene 1 activates loops 1 & 2 and all others are bypassed. Scene 2 activates loops 3 & 5 and all others are bypassed. Scene 3 activates all 5 loops.

But what if you want to be in Scene 1 and then activate loop 4? In this case you want to set some other switch (not one of the scene switches; notice we only used 3 scenes above) to be a Control Switch (CS). You set that switch to send a CC that activates that loop on the ML5 (it's been a while so I can't remember which it is--probably CC3 with a value of 127?).

Using both ideas together (scene switches sending PCs and CSs sending CCs) you're somewhat limited by the number of switches you have available on the FM9 and any external switches you have connected. There are some ways around those limitations but first get a handle on PCs vs CCs.
 
If you want multiple or single ML5 loops to come on (or turn off) strictly according to scene changes, you want to use PC messages. This will make it so (for example) Scene 1 activates loops 1 & 2 and all others are bypassed. Scene 2 activates loops 3 & 5 and all others are bypassed. Scene 3 activates all 5 loops.

But what if you want to be in Scene 1 and then activate loop 4? In this case you want to set some other switch (not one of the scene switches; notice we only used 3 scenes above) to be a Control Switch (CS). You set that switch to send a CC that activates that loop on the ML5 (it's been a while so I can't remember which it is--probably CC3 with a value of 127?).

Using both ideas together (scene switches sending PCs and CSs sending CCs) you're somewhat limited by the number of switches you have available on the FM9 and any external switches you have connected. There are some ways around those limitations but first get a handle on PCs vs CCs.
That would work if I wanted to keep the loops fixed to specific scenes but I’m trying to have the loops flexible so I can quickly add them in on the fly while I’m playing but most importantly when I select a loop it’s only active for the scene i’m on. Not sure if this is possible?

Also is it possible to use In 2 and Out 2 as another effects loop for pedals if I used a XLR to 1/4 jack for Out 2?
 
If you want to be able to select loops on the fly, why don't you get a programmable looper with switches, like the OneControl Caiman Tail loop switcher?

I am considering one for myself as well, getting rid of a G2 and making my main pedalboard smaller and use it mainly for fuzz and boost pedals, now that I have my FM9.
 
That would work if I wanted to keep the loops fixed to specific scenes but I’m trying to have the loops flexible so I can quickly add them in on the fly while I’m playing but most importantly when I select a loop it’s only active for the scene i’m on. Not sure if this is possible?
i use a morningstar ml5 along with my fm9 and i accomplished this with a combination of the midi block in my scenes and control switches setup in effects mode of the ofm9g layout. both the fm9 and the ml5 are flexible enough that programming this sort of thing was super easy using fm9-edit.
 
i use a morningstar ml5 along with my fm9 and i accomplished this with a combination of the midi block in my scenes and control switches setup in effects mode of the ofm9g layout. both the fm9 and the ml5 are flexible enough that programming this sort of thing was super easy using fm9-edit.
That’s good to hear you use the ML5 with the FM9. So just to double check you’re re able to select a loop on the ML5 using the FM9 for example in scene 1, switch to scene 2 and disable the loop and then switch back to scene 1 and the loop is re-enabled?
 
That’s good to hear you use the ML5 with the FM9. So just to double check you’re re able to select a loop on the ML5 using the FM9 for example in scene 1, switch to scene 2 and disable the loop and then switch back to scene 1 and the loop is re-enabled?
yes, absolutely. just keep in mind that as others have said it isn't automatic out of the box as you need setup the midi block and/or control switches. but that is really simple and works great after you have that going.
 
yes, absolutely. just keep in mind that as others have said it isn't automatic out of the box as you need setup the midi block and/or control switches. but that is really simple and works great after you have that going.
Great thanks, could you explain how you setup the midi block and control switches in the way you use them?
 
Great thanks, could you explain how you setup the midi block and control switches in the way you use them?
sorry, just getting back around to this. here are a few screenshots that show an example of how i have my fm9 interacting with the ml5 and a midi-modded pog2. the control switch is setup to control the pog's loop in the ml5 and the midi block in scene 7 sends a pc to change the preset on the pog. the control switches i have setup for the ml5 have also been added to the effects layout so i can interact with the loops like pedals. you can see that there's plenty of space in the midi block to do it all there if you don't want to bother with the control switches. i'm sure someone with more fractal experience could come up with something more elegant than this but it's what currently works for me.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.28.00 PM.png
    Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.28.00 PM.png
    196.1 KB · Views: 11
  • Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.30.48 PM.png
    Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.30.48 PM.png
    139.7 KB · Views: 11
  • Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.35.18 PM.png
    Screenshot 2022-11-29 at 12.35.18 PM.png
    101.4 KB · Views: 11
sorry, just getting back around to this. here are a few screenshots that show an example of how i have my fm9 interacting with the ml5 and a midi-modded pog2. the control switch is setup to control the pog's loop in the ml5 and the midi block in scene 7 sends a pc to change the preset on the pog. the control switches i have setup for the ml5 have also been added to the effects layout so i can interact with the loops like pedals. you can see that there's plenty of space in the midi block to do it all there if you don't want to bother with the control switches. i'm sure someone with more fractal experience could come up with something more elegant than this but it's what currently works for me.
Thanks so much for taking the time on the write up. Screen grabs are really helpful too. Sorry I know I asked you this in the previous question but I just want to triple check the FM9 & ML5 will work they way I intend as it’s a bit of deal breaker if it doesn’t.

For example I have CS1 setup on the FM9 effects page which controls loop 1 of the ML5 using CS MIDI .
I want loop 1 to be active for scene 1, so I engage CS1 within scene 1. Then switch to scene 2 and disengage CS1. Switch to scene 3 and engage CS1 - then when I switch back through scenes 1, 2, 3 the states of CS1 / loop 1 are preserved as I just set them?
 
Thanks so much for taking the time on the write up. Screen grabs are really helpful too. Sorry I know I asked you this in the previous question but I just want to triple check the FM9 & ML5 will work they way I intend as it’s a bit of deal breaker if it doesn’t.

For example I have CS1 setup on the FM9 effects page which controls loop 1 of the ML5 using CS MIDI .
I want loop 1 to be active for scene 1, so I engage CS1 within scene 1. Then switch to scene 2 and disengage CS1. Switch to scene 3 and engage CS1 - then when I switch back through scenes 1, 2, 3 the states of CS1 / loop 1 are preserved as I just set them?

In your example, you want:

Scene 1: loop 1 on
Scene 2: loop 1 off
Scen 3: loop 1 on

Is that how you always want it? Or do you envision sometimes turning loop 1 off in (for example) scene 1?

Edit: I just tested this a little. You can set each scene with a default state (on/off/last) for the CS. I set it to on/off/on corresponding to your example using the "CS per Scene" matrix you can see in the second image @just steve. posted. With that, whenever you switch scenes, the loop uses the default state (again as per your example).

Note that I can go to loop 1 and turn the CS off using the footswitch I setup, but if I then switch to another scene and come back to scene 1, the CS will be back on again as that's its default state.

It sounds like you want each scene to remember whether or not you physically turned it on in that specific scene. Like "last time I was in scene 1, I turned the CS off so if I navigate away from scene 1, and come back it should still be off." I don't see a way to do that.

The "last" option simply remembers the state of the CS (on or off) that the CS was in when you changed scenes. So for example if I set scene 1 to on, scene 2 to off, and scene 3 to last...

I go to scene 1, the CS turns on. I go to scene 3 and the CS will stay on because on was the state of the CS when I switched to scene 3. If I switch to scene 2 the CS turns off like it should. If I then switch from 2 to 3, the CS will still be off because that's the last state the CS was in before I switched to scene 3.

Clear as mud?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply and trying it out on the FM9.

It sounds like you want each scene to remember whether or not you physically turned it on in that specific scene. Like "last time I was in scene 1, I turned the CS off so if I navigate away from scene 1, and come back it should still be off." I don't see a way to do that.
Yes basically what you have explained in the above quote is what i'm looking for but looks like thats not going to work.

I guess the only way i can get my pedals into the FM9 and have the flexibility with the scenes is to get them into the effects loop.
From what i can see the FM9 only has one loop (IN/OUT3) for pedals. Is there way to have more using IN/OUT2 - XLR to 1/4?)
 
Thanks for the reply and trying it out on the FM9.


Yes basically what you have explained in the above quote is what i'm looking for but looks like thats not going to work.

I guess the only way i can get my pedals into the FM9 and have the flexibility with the scenes is to get them into the effects loop.
From what i can see the FM9 only has one loop (IN/OUT3) for pedals. Is there way to have more using IN/OUT2 - XLR to 1/4?)
You can definitely use in/out 2 for pedals. However you're still going to run into the same thing. If you put a pedal in input/output 2, you can have that loop active or not depending on which scene you're on. the scene still won't "remember" that you changed its state.

It sounds like what you're wanting is kind of an auto save feature. Or, in the case of the CSs, a "Last in scene" option in addition to on/off/last.

Still, I think it bears some consideration on if you really need a scene to remember the last state you left that scene in.

Are you wanting to use this idea live or...
 
Back
Top Bottom