FM3 vs AXE FXIII

Give Steve a break. 1) he doesn’t owe y’all anything and 2) he gave you his process notes. His experience can be different from yours and that’s ok. You don’t have to blast him for it. If you’ve got a better experiment, do it. Otherwise you’re just nerd sniping.
 
mcnoodles said:
Give Steve a break. 1) he doesn’t owe y’all anything and 2) he gave you his process notes. His experience can be different from yours and that’s ok. You don’t have to blast him for it. If you’ve got a better experiment, do it. Otherwise you’re just nerd sniping.
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Who's busting on him? If you read through the thread, you'll see folks are genuinely curious about his experience because this is not the norm. It's a pretty helpful community and it seemed like he wanted advice.

Even if he's given up and returned the FM3, his thread still exists and someone else could come across it, so yes, his OP needs to be addressed.
 
Completely agree, OP. They do NOT sound the same no matter what anyone says. Even assuming you're on the most current FW with both versions, there's just something the FM3 lacks in comparison to the Axe Fx III. It's still 99% there, but there's always that little something you can't really put your finger on. The FM3 lacks several important tone-shaping features the Axe Fx III has, so it's no wonder, let alone being able to have everything on the highest quality in the III whereas you have to make compromises in the FM3.

Obviously, my experience goes against the grain with all of the top brass and all of the big boys in this forum, but we just agree to disagree. A lot of folks say they can transfer a preset from one unit to the other and it'll sound identical, but I don't believe them. I don't think they're lying or deluded, but my experience won't let me believe it's possible. I could just be more sensitive to certain nuances of the tone: for instance, I can't ever hear a difference in the FW updates, whereas some people praise each .x update as the second coming. But when I compare the same preset in the FM3 and the Axe III, they do not sound the same and, assuming it's even possible to make them sound the same, which I maintain that it's not the fact that you have to go down a checklist a mile long to make sure things are set properly to make them sound the same means that effectively, they do not sound the same. But again, I just accept that I do not maintain the same position as most folks around here in this regard. I think you can get VERY close, but not exact.

All that said, I choose to use the FM3 because of the convenience of having everything I need in one little box. I'm happy with the compromise. I just plug in an EV-1 and I'm good to go.
 
Important point: when comparing presets be sure that the input impedance is identical on each unit. The impedance on the Axe III and the FM9 are variable and user-defined. The FM3's is fixed at 1 megaohm.

Computers are computers and Fractal uses identical components across devices to keep their production costs in check. I suspect any differences people hear between devices are due to either processing limitations, features that aren't available (like variable input impedance) or, most likely, users listening with their wallets.

That said, I'm not interested in anyone's "opinion" of wether or not the devices sound the same.

Show me the null test.
 
kywabunga said:
Important point: when comparing presets be sure that the input impedance is identical on each unit. The impedance on the Axe III and the FM9 are variable and user-defined. The FM3's is fixed at 1 megaohm.

Computers are computers and Fractal uses identical components across devices to keep their production costs in check. I suspect any differences people hear between devices are due to either processing limitations, features that aren't available (like variable input impedance) or, most likely, users listening with their wallets.

That said, I'm not interested in anyone's "opinion" of wether or not the devices sound the same.

Show me the null test.
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While I mostly agree with you, Fractal has stated from the beginning that both the FM3 and FM9 may have differences in the modeling.

So there may be inherent differences that we cannot control or access...
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Completely agree, OP. They do NOT sound the same no matter what anyone says. Even assuming you're on the most current FW with both versions, there's just something the FM3 lacks in comparison to the Axe Fx III. It's still 99% there, but there's always that little something you can't really put your finger on. The FM3 lacks several important tone-shaping features the Axe Fx III has, so it's no wonder, let alone being able to have everything on the highest quality in the III whereas you have to make compromises in the FM3.

Obviously, my experience goes against the grain with all of the top brass and all of the big boys in this forum, but we just agree to disagree. A lot of folks say they can transfer a preset from one unit to the other and it'll sound identical, but I don't believe them. I don't think they're lying or deluded, but my experience won't let me believe it's possible. I could just be more sensitive to certain nuances of the tone: for instance, I can't ever hear a difference in the FW updates, whereas some people praise each .x update as the second coming. But when I compare the same preset in the FM3 and the Axe III, they do not sound the same and, assuming it's even possible to make them sound the same, which I maintain that it's not the fact that you have to go down a checklist a mile long to make sure things are set properly to make them sound the same means that effectively, they do not sound the same. But again, I just accept that I do not maintain the same position as most folks around here in this regard. I think you can get VERY close, but not exact.

All that said, I choose to use the FM3 because of the convenience of having everything I need in one little box. I'm happy with the compromise. I just plug in an EV-1 and I'm good to go.
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There's a big difference between comparing the modeling to comparing a preset.

First off, by default, both FM3 and FM9 lower the IR length when importing a preset.

If you created a preset on the FM3 that's just Input -> Amp -> Cab -> Output, import into Axe Fx III and make sure the Axe Fx Input Impedance is set to 1M then they should sound very close (when the firmware on each is "in sync").

Adding other effects will start to favor the Axe Fx because (as you said), you'll need to make compromises to fit within the available processing power.

The OP reported (IMO) "drastic" differences... That doesn't align (again, IMO) with your 99% evaluation.

The OP also did not, and now can not, do such a comparison.

Somebody else could. I could, but I'm honestly not concerned with it.

I don't disagree that it may be 99%... It might be higher or even a little lower.

But I think if someone performed a valid, scientific comparison as described above all 3 units would be very, very similar.
 
Where I fall in this is whether the differences are so extreme that one would have to have the FXIII over the FM3 as a scaled down secondary rig and more so that the FM3 is just unacceptable.

The other thing that didn’t sit right with me was the comparison between a tube amp and solid state amp. First, let me preface by saying not only was I always a tube amp person (probably still am) but I was also a hater of modelers and the whole modeling concept until approximately two years ago when I pulled the trigger on the FM3. First the tube vs solid state thing. While there are probably some magical atomic level differences between the two a well made solid state amp is perfectly capable of being a great platform. I had my attitude flipped around when I came upon the JC series of Roland amps. When the mood strikes and with the right other gear I can say I prefer it. Mostly when I want a good, strong and solid clean tone. So when I see some one use this type of description my “how experienced is this person” radar pops on. That’s all it is just a suspicion that can easily be dispelled which i feel pretty certain happened in this case.

As far as modelers go, it was when I realized much of what I disliked about modeling was just the fact that they had not evolved to my satisfaction until recently. Most of this is just sheer technology combined with someone taking the time and ingenuity to work out the finer aspects of what makes a guitar amp a guitar amp and then put that in processable code. Then having the hardware (fast memory and processing speed) to make it happen in real time.

Finally, I sort of felt it was a bit annoying to come on the FM3 part of the company forum and make a statement that not only goes against what the general stance of FAS is in regards to the three units, but plop it down without much to back it up. Actually, much of the original post had a good many areas to poke holes. I guess if it was me I would have gone on the FXIII part of the forum and raved about it there and expressed my dislike for the FM3. Because up until this point I was under the impression that given everything being equal (and equality was possible) there was no difference.

So as someone pointed out there’s my $.02 which is worth just that.

Edit & P.S.
One important part I left out, it was never really the “sound” that turned me off to modeling. Although, their ability to get that edge of breakup was very lacking until I played the FM3. What I couldn’t tolerate was the “tactile feel” and latency aspect. That feeling like I wasn’t directly connected to the guitar and what was producing the end result. That was always the deal breaker.
 
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