FM3 vs AXE FXIII

SteveW

SteveW

Experienced
So, I ordered an FM3 a few months ago and I've had ample opportunity to play with it.

And just for the record, I already own an AXE FXIII and an AXE FXIII Mark II, both installed with a pair of FRFR's, in two different residences.

So, this ain't my first rodeo! All that said, I will say that the FM3 does NOT sound like an AXE FXIII, and has more of a transistor amp sound than a tube amp sound. There are marked differences between the two. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT MY FIRST CHOICE.

I was disappointed when I heard the FM3 using the brown sound preset versus the AXE FX III, using the same preset. It's somewhat hard to describe the difference in the sound, as the tones are actually pretty much the same. But the difference that my ears perceive, is the same effect that you would have listening to a transistor amp versus a tube amp where the ending resonance of the note just falls flat on its face versus a tube amp, where the residents just continues into oblivion.

Again, hard to describe what it is that I'm hearing, but I'm definitely hearing it.

I bought the FM3 and a smaller pair of FRFR's that I could use to travel with, and this was after I tried a bunch of smaller all-in-ones like the Yamaha THR30 II (probably the best of all of them) and the Positive Grid, (which I absolutely hated), and decided to bite the bullet and go for an FM3 with a pair of FRFR's, thinking I would have the same tone and sound as an FXIII. That was a lunch bag let down, and I think I'm going to sell the FM3 and get yet another FX3 to travel with, because it's too much of a pain in the neck to pull the existing when I have off the rack each time. I'm hesitant to go to the FM9, only because I think it may suffer from the same issues as the FM3.
 
Same (current) firmware?
Can you provide a simple preset (maybe amp/cab) that sounds different on both devices?
I have Axe3 and FM3, and I hear no difference in the amp/cab modelling.

Any global settings that may be different? (like power amp modelling turned off on the FM3).
 
SteveW said:
...the difference that my ears perceive, is the same effect that you would have listening to a transistor amp versus a tube amp where the ending resonance of the note just falls flat on its face versus a tube amp, where the residents just continues into oblivion.

Again, hard to describe what it is that I'm hearing, but I'm definitely hearing it.
Click to expand...
Volume or noise gate. Either one can cause what you describe.
 
are you talking about dry tones?

Maybe you are use to the longest irs in the axe fx3 and the ultra high settings for reverb for example.
 
I think this is subjective but I have heard people and myself included hear some differences in the units, but it is slight maybe? I used an Fm3 for a while and it was great. I would say the Fm9 sounds great as well. I would say the AF3 Turbo does have the "best" sound to my ears and that is what I almost always use when using the AF. I don't know exactly why but it just seems to have a little more mojo which doesn't sense - it just is. Having said this all of the units would be completely perfect for any gig - CPU aside.
 
I have all 3 units and honestly can't hear a difference between presets with compatible blocks. When I got the FM9 I hit up rehearsal with my III presets ported over and it was seamless for me. My stuff is really simple but I really couldn't hear a difference. There might be some variance but nothing severe enough for me to really notice at least. Bummer you are having issues with the FM3. I really love that little unit and it's been great for travel and I keep it down in my living room area and tweak around with preset editing and just general deep dive type stuff without having to leave the couch late at night.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I have all three units, and, running a preset created on the FM3 and imported into the FM9 or FX3, and with the system settings the same, and the sound sent to the same cabinets, I don't hear a difference.
Click to expand...
Same.

Also, I'd say you can't necessarily compare the same factory preset from each device as they aren't always the same.

@SteveW - I would create a preset on Axe Fx III and export it, then import on the FM3.

Make sure to set the IR length to match after importing.

The FM3 doesn't have variable Input Impedance, but that probably isn't affecting you although it could.

Check all of your system settings. It sounds like a noise Gate issue and there's a global offset setting for that.

Maybe try a simple Input -> Amp -> Cab -> Output preset and disable the input gate.
 
unix-guy said:
Also, I'd say you can't necessarily compare the same factory preset from each device as they aren't always the same.
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Most definitely.

There are differences in the factory presets simply because the presets started on the FX3 originally to highlight that platform, and then have been adjusted to allow the presets to run on the FM units as their hardware allows.

unix-guy said:
@SteveW - I would create a preset on Axe Fx III and export it, then import on the FM3.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t. It’s too easy to create a preset that exceeds the FM3 limits, and would allow differences in IR length and reverb quality to be automatically adjusted downward during the import process.

Instead, create the preset on the FM3 and export it, and then import it into the bigger sibling without changes, ensuring the system settings between the units are the same. The reverb and IR should be maintained. If they’re not then reset them on the FX3 to maintain consistency.

unix-guy said:
Maybe try a simple Input -> Amp -> Cab -> Output preset and disable the input gate.
Click to expand...
This would help but there are still parameters in the amp and cab blocks that exist in the FX3 that don’t exist on the FM3 or that have different defaults.

Starting with the FM3 is still more likely to result in a preset that has common settings.
 
Hi Steve,
Perhaps the issue is clarified within your original post i.e. "I bought the FM3 and a smaller pair of FRFR's that I could use to travel with." Inherent in this sentence are two extremely relevant circumstances, i.e. different equipment (sound producers) and different locations. Both of these will affect the sound you 'perceive' to a degree that makes comparison completely moot.

I wonder if you have tried setting up the FM3 with EXACTLY the same preset (in all aspects) as one in your AXE FXIII Mark II in its current location with the same sound producers. If you still perceive a difference, then follow the advice of the other forum folk above and perhaps they may be able to help explain. Or, sell the FM3. But, I suspect, with different sound producers, in different locations, even with another AXE FXIII Mark II you may well still perceive a difference.

I wish you well.
 
SteveW said:
I will say that the FM3 does NOT sound like an AXE FXIII, and has more of a transistor amp sound than a tube amp sound.

I bought the FM3 and a smaller pair of FRFR's that I could use to travel with, thinking I would have the same tone and sound as an FXIII.
Click to expand...
Have you tried your Axe-Fx III with this smaller pair of FRFRs?
 
Have you tried the same headphones with both devices? When I got my FM3 I had to treat my room with some absorbers and add a PEQ to almost every factory preset to make it sound good. I now used REW and Sonarworks to optimize the room acoustics and the sound is awesome. I guess traveling and listening in completely altered settings is not the right starting point to compare sound.
 
SteveW said:
So, I ordered an FM3 a few months ago and I've had ample opportunity to play with it.

And just for the record, I already own an AXE FXIII and an AXE FXIII Mark II, both installed with a pair of FRFR's, in two different residences.

So, this ain't my first rodeo! All that said, I will say that the FM3 does NOT sound like an AXE FXIII, and has more of a transistor amp sound than a tube amp sound. There are marked differences between the two. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT MY FIRST CHOICE.

I was disappointed when I heard the FM3 using the brown sound preset versus the AXE FX III, using the same preset. It's somewhat hard to describe the difference in the sound, as the tones are actually pretty much the same. But the difference that my ears perceive, is the same effect that you would have listening to a transistor amp versus a tube amp where the ending resonance of the note just falls flat on its face versus a tube amp, where the residents just continues into oblivion.

Again, hard to describe what it is that I'm hearing, but I'm definitely hearing it.

I bought the FM3 and a smaller pair of FRFR's that I could use to travel with, and this was after I tried a bunch of smaller all-in-ones like the Yamaha THR30 II (probably the best of all of them) and the Positive Grid, (which I absolutely hated), and decided to bite the bullet and go for an FM3 with a pair of FRFR's, thinking I would have the same tone and sound as an FXIII. That was a lunch bag let down, and I think I'm going to sell the FM3 and get yet another FX3 to travel with, because it's too much of a pain in the neck to pull the existing when I have off the rack each time. I'm hesitant to go to the FM9, only because I think it may suffer from the same issues as the FM3.
Click to expand...
You need to transfer one of your own presets from the III to the FM3 instead of comparing factory presets. I played the RockMeOn preset on the FM3 and couldn’t figure out why it sounded a little different than the III, but I realized the III used a tonematch block and the FM3 doesn’t have that block unfortunately. Some of the III factory presets are just set up differently on the FM3 which explains the difference you’re hearing. But the FM3 should sound identical to the III if you’re presets match perfectly because they use the same technology.
 
Could this be as simple as something @Greg Ferguson often mentions? That would be not having the same interaction with the guitar based on the resonance that a loud speaker creates by regenerating the strings and body vibrations. More specifically in this case a smaller set of speakers of uncertain quality with the FM3 vs. what may be a much more full blown setup with the FXIII setups?

To be honest while the OP did offer a good bit of information there’s a lot of info missing when discussing a truly apples to apples comparison. Most of all it must be truly an apples to apples comparison. Finally, of all the different gear that can be compared the devices in question at their heart are just a bunch of transistors compiling bits of data. The fact that presets can be easily swapped given the proper considerations proves it’s the same coding and processing being used. There really can’t be much room for differences other than the few mentioned that would make it so much an issue that it is unacceptable. I dont know. All I have is a FM3, but man there seems to be too many pros who have both and other than the known processing power and a few other minor bits they love the FM3 and now FM9 and have never mentioned this before.
 
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