FM3 to Fender FR-10 output settings help.

S

sheeporbit

New Member
Hello everyone!

I just received my FM3 about a week ago and just now getting around to messing with it. I'm completely new to the world of modeling, FRFR, XLR cables, using a computer to tweak things and all that jazz. I have a couple of questions, and please excuse my poor terminology or if these questions have already been asked.

If I'm running a single XLR cable from the FM3 to the FRFR, do I need to go in and change any settings on the modeler? Can it be left in stereo despite running it mono essentially?

What is the optimal output level for the FRFR? -10v or +4dbu? Is this considered a "Professional grade device"?

Im asking this since I plugged in and played and things are sounding a little bit muffled or muddy. I promise I'm not chasing the "Guitar Amp in the Room Sound", but rather reaching for clarity in the tone. What kinda stuff do I need to be diving into and tweaking?


Thank you so much for your time and patience in reading this, I look forward to learning a lot from all of you and enjoying this device!!

Best,
Ted
 
sheeporbit said:
If I'm running a single XLR cable from the FM3 to the FRFR, do I need to go in and change any settings on the modeler? Can it be left in stereo despite running it mono essentially?
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You don't need to change the settings. And, yes, it can be left in stereo if you want.

See p. 8 in the manual for the various modes you can use to convert stereo to monaural, and their up and downsides.

I use half-stereo and speed up the rate of echos or tremolo panning with the tap-tempo if I feel they're too slow. I sometimes only take one FRFR and sometimes take two for stereo so it works good enough for me.

sheeporbit said:
What is the optimal output level for the FRFR? -10v or +4dbu? Is this considered a "Professional grade device"?
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I'd use +4 with the XLR but YMMV. See section 4 in the FM3 manual, particularly p. 30, and check Fender's manual for what they recommend. Many people use those cabinets so you'll get lots of information quickly I'm sure.
 
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I use the FR-10 with a TS cable from left side Out2 to my FR-10. I find that I prefer the output level at -10, simply because it gives me more range to use the volume knobs on each device. I keep my FR-10 at noon volume, and adjust the Out 2 level knob on top of the FM3 to get the volume I want. I primarily use this in my bedroom. Use a little high cut, and adjust EQ to taste. You should be rockin' in no time.
 
If you play mono, then rather going mono in your preset and fx blocks will exclude some phase issues. I don't know well the FM12 but as far as I understand it is not a totally transparent FRFR device. Check the cab block you use, changing a cab block and impedance curve may affect a lot your sound. Maybe opt for some brighter speakers (cab IR choice) or mic positions.
 
DoctorJones said:
I use the FR-10 with a TS cable from left side Out2 to my FR-10. I find that I prefer the output level at -10, simply because it gives me more range to use the volume knobs on each device. I keep my FR-10 at noon volume, and adjust the Out 2 level knob on top of the FM3 to get the volume I want. I primarily use this in my bedroom. Use a little high cut, and adjust EQ to taste. You should be rockin' in no time.
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Interesting. I'll give this method a go to hear out the differences. So if I were trying to practice at super low volume at night in my apartment for example, I could keep the FR10 volume at noon and cut back on the Out 2 level knob instead? Does that mess with the "presence"?
 
lauke-lux said:
If you play mono, then rather going mono in your preset and fx blocks will exclude some phase issues. I don't know well the FM12 but as far as I understand it is not a totally transparent FRFR device. Check the cab block you use, changing a cab block and impedance curve may affect a lot your sound. Maybe opt for some brighter speakers (cab IR choice) or mic positions.
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Thanks!! I haven't even messed with changing cabs or mic placement, this device is absolutely insane.

I'm wanting to have everything ready to go in stereo for actual performance/playing at some point but I want to hear how it would sound with going mono in the preset. What's the best place to do this from? Do you have any brighter IR cabs you personally enjoy?
 
sheeporbit said:
Interesting. I'll give this method a go to hear out the differences. So if I were trying to practice at super low volume at night in my apartment for example, I could keep the FR10 volume at noon and cut back on the Out 2 level knob instead? Does that mess with the "presence"?
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Yes, I use it just as you describe. The FR-10 can take either signal, so feel free to experiment. I don't find it messes with the presence, it seems to just affect the overall output level.
 
sheeporbit said:
Thanks!! I haven't even messed with changing cabs or mic placement, this device is absolutely insane.

I'm wanting to have everything ready to go in stereo for actual performance/playing at some point but I want to hear how it would sound with going mono in the preset. What's the best place to do this from? Do you have any brighter IR cabs you personally enjoy?
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It's a matter of taste. Personally I like anything called greenback. (G12H30, G12M25,...), guess V30s should be brighter. Take care to match speaker impedance curves.
 
+4db is good. I primarily dial in presets on phones and mine are pretty flat. My FR10 has the V2 preamp. With treble bass and mids set to noon and the hi cut off, I don’t need any large tone adjusts on the FR10 to make my presets sound right.

I consider the FM3 to be pro grade. The Axe is more so. The core amp modeling sounds the same or very close between the units. Plenty of Axe users also have FM3’s.

If your tones are muffled and muddy you should try other IR’s. They have a huge impact on tone. If your speaker is flat on the floor it can get a little boomy. Input eq on the amp block can be used to cut lows into the amp and remove some of the mud. Try the dynacabs. Find Leon Todd’s IR’s on the Axechange. LT TV Mix 7 and 2 are excellent. Try changing speaker curves in the speaker tab in the amp block. Some are darker and some are brighter. Try them all and use what sounds best to you. In the setup the output should be set to FRFR. Keep the cpu usage below 80%. You'll figure it out but it will take some time. That’s normal. Welcome to the forum.
 
One note on the FR-10/12, “flat” is with treble, mid, bass at noon, cut at 0. If you set it like you might on an amp, it can introduce some oddness into your patches. The controls work well for tweaking the room onstage later.
 
skolacki said:
+4db is good. I primarily dial in presets on phones and mine are pretty flat. My FR10 has the V2 preamp. With treble bass and mids set to noon and the hi cut off, I don’t need any large tone adjusts on the FR10 to make my presets sound right.

I consider the FM3 to be pro grade. The Axe is more so. The core amp modeling sounds the same or very close between the units. Plenty of Axe users also have FM3’s.

If your tones are muffled and muddy you should try other IR’s. They have a huge impact on tone. If your speaker is flat on the floor it can get a little boomy. Input eq on the amp block can be used to cut lows into the amp and remove some of the mud. Try the dynacabs. Find Leon Todd’s IR’s on the Axechange. LT TV Mix 7 and 2 are excellent. Try changing speaker curves in the speaker tab in the amp block. Some are darker and some are brighter. Try them all and use what sounds best to you. In the setup the output should be set to FRFR. Keep the cpu usage below 80%. You'll figure it out but it will take some time. That’s normal. Welcome to the forum.
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My experience is pretty close to yours... For me I found I needed to cut the bass by -1, +4db. I have all my presets leveled so they hit the output about the same (tickling the end of the green on my recording interface input). The output on my fractal is around 1 o'clock. My volume on the FR10 is usually around 10-11 oclock at rehearsal.

I do like to have the FR10 using the kickstand. My immediate impression was all my presets sounded great including most of them that take advantage of a stereo effect. I played around comparing using the various options for mono and didn't notice a significant difference honestly but most of my presets are pretty simple. I had been running into our board directly at rehearsal so my presets were eq'd to that. I'm really preferring the FR10 over running into the board now. Simply having the amp speaker on the ground sure gives me the "amp in the room" feel I was missing.

Out of curiosity how are you comparing? What did you use to create and eq your presets?
 
SushiGradeFunk said:
I've seen some threads on here, but do you happen to have links, or where did you see this?
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I think it was WKSmith that makes a new preamp for this that did some measurements and posted these settings. Cant find the thread but its here somewhere. I did try these settings at high volume, but just found sound to lack punch and had too much high end... might be the room or just my preferences. I would just leave it all at noon (except cut at 0), and experiment from there.
 
Gonwild said:
I think it was WKSmith that makes a new preamp for this that did some measurements and posted these settings. Cant find the thread but its here somewhere. I did try these settings at high volume, but just found sound to lack punch and had too much high end... might be the room or just my preferences. I would just leave it all at noon (except cut at 0), and experiment from there.
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The thread about the hissing issue and the excellent preamp replacement can be found here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fender-fr-12-preamp-mod-the-hissterectomy.198759/ - start at the beginning, but be aware, that thread is huge.. :-).
 
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