[Solved (mostly) thanks to a Friedman ASM-12] FM3 sonic quandary: CLR versus real power amp and cabs: A review from a newbie, and Do I need a XiTone?

The FM3 has a lot of tone shaping options. Want more thump? Try a different IR, amp setting, EQ, etc. Buying a frequency-limited speaker will just constrain the sounds you can achieve.
Start with a simple graphic EQ block and start tweaking. You won’t break it.
 
Are we able to adjust IR length to 1024 in FM3 ? Instructions say to do so.....not at mine this second :)
 
The thing I love about my Xitone active wedge that the CLR can’t do is the ability to only have the 12” speaker active without the tweeter, and when you turn off the cab and power amp sims in the axe, it gives you “amp in the room.”
 
Another thing to consider is the number of speakers. The CLR only has 1 but the Mesa has 4, which does impart a sonic difference. I have two Xitone 1x12 wedges and most of the time I only bring one to a gig, which are gigs I would probably have brought a 1x12 Fender Deluxe Reverb to if I were using a real amp. When I need more "umpff" from my setup, I bring both cabs. Personally I like the sound of 2x12s the best (compared to 1x12 or 4x12), whether using real cabs or even choosing between IRs. Most of the time I don't have the setup space, volume need, or desire to bring two cabs, but I do prefer the sound of two over one, and that's not even considering the possibility of stereo effects.
 
I have a CLR and a Xitone wedge that I use regularly. You will not find what you’re looking for by switching from a CLR to Xitone. They are pretty similar sounding.
I would start with high cuts on the cab block (go aggressive, down to 5-6K even) and maybe a smiley EQ on the amp output eq section. And drive the CLR loud.
 
For more thump try adding a little Dynamic Depth on the Dynamics tab in the Amp block. You may need to turn down the bass in the standard preamp section to get rid of any woofiness.
 
I spoke with Mick from Xitone a while back and at that time (maybe a year or so ago) he was going to be offering a 2x12 active frfr. He said it was a beast. I was going to buy one but too much time passed and I couldn’t pull the trigger. I would def reach out and ask him about that one! Not sure if it’s still in his plan, but I really like the idea.
I used to go through a Mesa 2:90 to 4x12 on each side. Now I use a Xitone12” active wedge on each side. I don’t miss the the big cabs for the gigs I do. Mostly because the stage sound is so much better in more area. The tonal dispersion is way better.
I don’t play super loud (didn’t really with the 4x12’s either). Enough so I can hear clearly on stage and those standing at the front of the stage also get a good sound without being blasted. FOH takes it from there.
I didn’t notice a mention of style you play. I’m a hard rock ‘n metal(ish) guy...
We use scrims flanking the drummer now.
 
jlynnb1 said:
just so we're clear? you're comparing a single 1x12 CLR to a 412 and 212?
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A-ha!! I see where you’re headed with that... Good point - I’m using 1 CLR and 1 QSC on the left side and a 4x12 and 2x12 on the right side with 8 6L6s pumping 90 (tube) watts into each real cab. Maybe it’s not a fair fight on the “thump” issue from the start?
 
Poparad said:
Another thing to consider is the number of speakers. The CLR only has 1 but the Mesa has 4, which does impart a sonic difference. I have two Xitone 1x12 wedges and most of the time I only bring one to a gig, which are gigs I would probably have brought a 1x12 Fender Deluxe Reverb to if I were using a real amp. When I need more "umpff" from my setup, I bring both cabs. Personally I like the sound of 2x12s the best (compared to 1x12 or 4x12), whether using real cabs or even choosing between IRs. Most of the time I don't have the setup space, volume need, or desire to bring two cabs, but I do prefer the sound of two over one, and that's not even considering the possibility of stereo effects.
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Good point
Poparad said:
Another thing to consider is the number of speakers. The CLR only has 1 but the Mesa has 4, which does impart a sonic difference. I have two Xitone 1x12 wedges and most of the time I only bring one to a gig, which are gigs I would probably have brought a 1x12 Fender Deluxe Reverb to if I were using a real amp. When I need more "umpff" from my setup, I bring both cabs. Personally I like the sound of 2x12s the best (compared to 1x12 or 4x12), whether using real cabs or even choosing between IRs. Most of the time I don't have the setup space, volume need, or desire to bring two cabs, but I do prefer the sound of two over one, and that's not even considering the possibility of stereo effects.
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Good point - I do have 2 speakers on the left taking on 6 speakers on the right...
 
badmagick said:
I spoke with Mick from Xitone a while back and at that time (maybe a year or so ago) he was going to be offering a 2x12 active frfr. He said it was a beast. I was going to buy one but too much time passed and I couldn’t pull the trigger. I would def reach out and ask him about that one! Not sure if it’s still in his plan, but I really like the idea.
I used to go through a Mesa 2:90 to 4x12 on each side. Now I use a Xitone12” active wedge on each side. I don’t miss the the big cabs for the gigs I do. Mostly because the stage sound is so much better in more area. The tonal dispersion is way better.
I don’t play super loud (didn’t really with the 4x12’s either). Enough so I can hear clearly on stage and those standing at the front of the stage also get a good sound without being blasted. FOH takes it from there.
I didn’t notice a mention of style you play. I’m a hard rock ‘n metal(ish) guy...
We use scrims flanking the drummer now.
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Thanks. I play heavier classic rock (kinda like the way Godsmack covered Come Together) and some classic metal (Priest, Maiden, Scorpions) and a little KISS... If I have to drag out scrims, I might as well have them loaded and thumping out some real cab tones to move the air around my pant legs...At the end of the day, that’s what Fractal gave us OUT2 for, right? Any thoughts on the Friedman ASM-12? There’s one locally going for pretty cheap...
 
DLC86 said:
Have you tried some far field IRs? And do you place the CLR on a pole or on the floor?

Try this if you can:
  • load a FF IR
  • place the CLR on the floor so that the speaker is perpendicular to the floor (just like a guitar cab)
  • set the preset switch on the back to FF

This is the closest I could get my CLR to a guitar cab in terms of thump.
But I still prefer my real cab for that, so my current setup is basically a 2x12 plus 2 CLRs used as PA speakers (for guitar, vocals and occasionally keyboard).
My guitar mainly comes out of the 2x12, the (weaker) signal going to the CLRs is just to add some clarity and stereo spread. Best of both worlds.
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Thanks, I’ll grab those FF IRs and give this a try tomorrow. I use the CLR on the floor in wedge/tilt mode with the “Sub” switch set to “off” - I assume that means “bass cut” is off allowing the most lower freqs to come through?
 
ToneDriven said:
Thanks, I’ll grab those FF IRs and give this a try tomorrow. I use the CLR on the floor in wedge/tilt mode with the “Sub” switch set to “off” - I assume that means “bass cut” is off allowing the most lower freqs to come through?
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Yes, but the FF setting with close-mic IRs will have overwhelming bass when placed on the floor, while with a far-field IR it should be just perfect.
 
ToneDriven said:
Thanks, I’ll grab those FF IRs and give this a try tomorrow. I use the CLR on the floor in wedge/tilt mode with the “Sub” switch set to “off” - I assume that means “bass cut” is off allowing the most lower freqs to come through?
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FF IR's will not suddenly give you "amp in the room" or necessarily more "thump". A good one is balanced and will sound a bit more natural without the proximity effect of a close mic'd cab, and a bad one could be full of room reflections and phase cancellations.

There's a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions about FF IR's out there... There is a long thread on The Gear Page about IR Properties that might be work looking through, to a point.

Here's an interesting experiment for you. Put your Mesa/4x12 in another room, mic it, and listen to it through the CLR. Compare that to what you get with the FM3 and IR's thorough the CLR. When you do that comparison, you will have more of an apples to apples comparison.

And remember, a good sound man is cutting all that thump out in the PA and leaving that space for the bass guitar and kick drum.
 
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Whoa!!!! Thanks ALL!!! So many ideas have really helped. The Proximity effect really WOKE up the CLR on my Mark Day Recto preset!! I also ran through every FF IR in that link above from DLC86 that Fractal put together for us. The Recto 20 was the best IR from that zip file, but honestly there is a Leon Todd Marshall 4x12 IR out there that has really become a go-to cab for me (Thanks Leon!!!). Between bumping up the cab Proximity from "0" to "7" or so and Leon's IR attached below, and changing the CLR's DSP, my CLR is seriously moving some air now. I'll try adding Dynamic Depth too... Next step, I need to get some warmth out of the CLR - it's still a little cold (yes, real Rectos and Recto presets are always a little cold to me, but even some other warmer amps presets like the JTM45 are still sounding cold out of the CLR, when an amp like a JTM45 should come off with a ton of warmth... Any ideas for adding warmth to the CLR? Thanks again for so many great ideas so far!!
 
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