[Solved (mostly) thanks to a Friedman ASM-12] FM3 sonic quandary: CLR versus real power amp and cabs: A review from a newbie, and Do I need a XiTone?

T

ToneDriven

Inspired
An apology first because I know this has been discussed ad nauseum with other FAS gear because I’ve read EVERY thread about it two or three times while waiting for the FM3 to arrive in order to set up all these speakers options to get ready for the FM3’s arrival, but now, “here I am stuck in the middle with you” guys in this proverbial quandary..... So, as I sit in the middle of 4 speaker cabs (CLR/QSC to my LEFT and MESA 2:90>4x12 and 2x12 to my RIGHT), I find myself actually wanting a middle of the road solution (relentless pursuit of that perfect tone🤦‍♂️) because, while both sides sound great for different reasons - both sides also need something from the other side too...

[side note: running both sides simultaneously while sitting in the middle of those 4 cranked speakers is the most ridiculous sonically orgasmic thing I’ve ever heard]

Back to my long-winded question:
The LEFT side CLR is articulate, transparent and so clear, with SO much definition that brings out all the nuances of the amazing FM3, but it seems a little sterile and somewhat like an ice pick at times and lacking some good real “amp-in-the-room thump”.
The RIGHT side MESA 2:90 into my Creamback 65/75 4x12 and V30 2x12 was the real surprise when I flipped the switch: Mindblowing CHUNK and THUMP with perfect attack and chugging for days that are a credit to Mark Day’s and Leon Todd’s awesome FM3 patches, the brilliance of the FM3, and of course the unique magic that the MESA 2:90’s blend of Class A and Class A/B brings to the sonic spectrum. That said, the MESA’s right side lacked the clarity/articulation/definition of the CLR’s left side....

So, what to do??? Can I get more clarity out of the MESA side? Can I add more “thump” to the CLR side? Does a XiTone shoot right down the middle? I should offload some of this gear so I’d like to find a middle-of-the-road solution and just stick with it. XiTone’s active wedge seem to never be for sale on the used market (which must be a stellar endorsement of Mick’s product) so I can’t pick up one used to try out against (or with) my CLR....

Thanks so much for reading my rambling question and offering any solutions to make the CLR side thump better (or adding/replacing with a XiTone on that side) OR fixing the lack of clarity on the MESA Power amp/real cabs side...
 
I haven't compared a clr or real cab but my favorite thing about my xitone is leaving it plugged in during teardown and DJing a couple tunes for the stragglers via Bluetooth. Used to have to leave mixer and mains plugged in ha ha
 
I assume, that you are looking for a solution for jamming at home by yourself and not in a band/concert situation:

The CLR has some nice low end, but adding a sub with low volume can add the rumbling feel of a 4x12. I add as much sub, that it's not obvious it's on, but it just feels right.
 
From experience, the Xitone is not going to give you anything the CLR can't. I've owned two different Xitone cabs (one was the MBritt, I forget what the other one was), and they were good, but I like the CLR better. YMMV...

I've never felt like the CLR did not have enough low end for me, but I'm not a 4x12 guy. I'm more of a combo amp guy and I like to leave the low end uncluttered for the bass and kick.
 
levipeto said:
I assume, that you are looking for a solution for jamming at home by yourself and not in a band/concert situation:

The CLR has some nice low end, but adding a sub with low volume can add the rumbling feel of a 4x12. I add as much sub, that it's not obvious it's on, but it just feels right.
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Well, both actually, I'd like to get the CLR side more "thumpy" and "pushing air" like a 4x12 so maybe I can happily gig with it alone (and not have to lug around the 2:90 and real cabs with me to get that "amp feel" that I crave). Home playing is real fun when I fire up EVERYTHING! Bottom line, if I have to lug around everything, the MESA side becomes an amazing backline while the CLR is a floor monitor that outputs to FOH, but that's equipment overkill. Either way, I'd still like to maximize the sonic possibilities of both if I choose to only take one side out of the house with me... Any FM3 parameter suggestions on how to add more thump to the CLR (I already leave it on the floor in wedge mode and I don't cut the bass)?? EQ? GEQ? Which freqs in particular? Resonance? This is my first Fractal product so I'm not adept at modding EQ on it yet or any resonance tricks or anything else to get it to thump like a real 2x12 or 4x12. Thanks!
 
I am using a Friedman ASC12, its heavy as all get out......but the closest FRFR I have used that sounds AND look like a Guitar Cab.
Check into them as well.
Its a beast.
 
teddis said:
I am using a Friedman ASC12, its heavy as all get out......but the closest FRFR I have used that sounds AND look like a Guitar Cab.
Check into them as well.
Its a beast.
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Thanks! I have a real Friedman Dirty Shirley 40 head too so I definitely trust Friedman's products... So, did you previously play a CLR or XiTone with a Fractal product and you like the ASC12 the best? If so, maybe the Friedman is the best of both worlds solution?
 
I have not use either of those man....but I have owned QSC, Yamaha, Italin one...forgot its name...it was expensive......MATRIX, FR and with the Matrix GT SS amp into a Cab......lol.
Done here :)
 
ToneDriven said:
Yes, but sometimes I leave it on and it works out a little better depending on the particular preset, but most of the time, if left on, its just sonic mush...
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I use a Fryette Power Station and a 2x12. It usually sounds better with both the cab modeling and power amp modeling turned off.
 
A couple of years ago, I had the CLR, Yamaha DXR 10, Friedman ASM12 and Mission Engineering FR10. I’ve also had Mick at Xitone build me a custom cab with a builtin 3U rack I used with my Axe Fx 2 back in the day. It sounded awesome but was just way to big for me unfortunately. But I didn’t A/B directly with the CLR because this was before that. The Mission Engineering had a slight hiss so I couldn’t use it at home without being annoying. The ASM12 sounded great with Marshall style amps and high gain but didn’t like it with my AC20 and lower gain presets, even less so with acoustic presets. I play in a couple of covers bands so need to cover a wide verity of sounds. What I’ve stuck with for the last few years is two CLRs and two DXR10s. The CLRs sounds better than the DXRs but the DXRa are smaller, louder, more flexible with 3 inputs and it’s been super handy having a couple of PA speaks as well.

I was, and still is obviously, reading threads about different solutions but in the end unfortunately nothing substitutes trying it out yourself as we all have different needs. I don’t need more thump for instance and prefer the clarity from the CLRs over the ASMs as an example. I would probably buy a Xitone (and I might do that myself still) and see if that’s the best for you. Sorry I couldn’t provide a magic bullet.
 
I don't know if the proximity parameter still exists in the cab block of FM3 but in axe fx ii it can make the difference with a CLR. If too bright evt use the treble roll off on your guitar from time to time.
 
Johan Allard said:
A couple of years ago, I had the CLR, Yamaha DXR 10, Friedman ASM12 and Mission Engineering FR10. I’ve also had Mick at Xitone build me a custom cab with a builtin 3U rack I used with my Axe Fx 2 back in the day. It sounded awesome but was just way to big for me unfortunately. But I didn’t A/B directly with the CLR because this was before that. The Mission Engineering had a slight hiss so I couldn’t use it at home without being annoying. The ASM12 sounded great with Marshall style amps and high gain but didn’t like it with my AC20 and lower gain presets, even less so with acoustic presets. I play in a couple of covers bands so need to cover a wide verity of sounds. What I’ve stuck with for the last few years is two CLRs and two DXR10s. The CLRs sounds better than the DXRs but the DXRa are smaller, louder, more flexible with 3 inputs and it’s been super handy having a couple of PA speaks as well.

I was, and still is obviously, reading threads about different solutions but in the end unfortunately nothing substitutes trying it out yourself as we all have different needs. I don’t need more thump for instance and prefer the clarity from the CLRs over the ASMs as an example. I would probably buy a Xitone (and I might do that myself still) and see if that’s the best for you. Sorry I couldn’t provide a magic bullet.
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Wow! Thanks for all that!
 
teddis said:
I have not use either of those man....but I have owned QSC, Yamaha, Italin one...forgot its name...it was expensive......MATRIX, FR and with the Matrix GT SS amp into a Cab......lol.
Done here :)
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Big thanks, but now you got me thinking XiTone vs. Friedman because I love Marshall amps and Johan says it does well with them👍
 
I have a Xitone Mcbritt and couldn’t be happier with my tone. That said, I haven’t tried anything else and if I already had a CLR I’d stick with that. I’ll bet with the right IR you would get the thump your looking for.
 
Fro68 said:
I have a Xitone Mcbritt and couldn’t be happier with my tone. That said, I haven’t tried anything else and if I already had a CLR I’d stick with that. I’ll bet with the right IR you would get the thump your looking for.
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Thanks for the advice! Anyone out there with IRs that they like for the CLR to get that thing THUMPIN’??
 
ToneDriven said:
Thanks for the advice! Anyone out there with IRs that they like for the CLR to get that thing THUMPIN’??
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Have you tried some far field IRs? And do you place the CLR on a pole or on the floor?

Try this if you can:
  • load a FF IR
  • place the CLR on the floor so that the speaker is perpendicular to the floor (just like a guitar cab)
  • set the preset switch on the back to FF

This is the closest I could get my CLR to a guitar cab in terms of thump.
But I still prefer my real cab for that, so my current setup is basically a 2x12 plus 2 CLRs used as PA speakers (for guitar, vocals and occasionally keyboard).
My guitar mainly comes out of the 2x12, the (weaker) signal going to the CLRs is just to add some clarity and stereo spread. Best of both worlds.
 
This is something I have no idea what it sounds like ...do FF irs work on FM3?

Where can we get reference quality FF irs ?
 
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