FM3: Pairing with real cabinet - Tubes vs. Solid State

Power amp?


  • Total voters
    22

SOAWM

Inspired
For a long time I used an Axe-Fx II with a Matrix GT1000FX and FRFR (Matrix CFR12) speakers, but ultimately felt the urge to experience the feeling of a loud amp in the room again. I sold everything and retired the Axe-Fx II to my modest home studio. The last couple of years I have been using a VHT Pittbull Ultra Lead with a 412 cabinet and pedals in my band.

A while ago, I scored a massive deal on an Axe-Fx III with FC-12 and I was so thoroughly impressed with the improvements that I also purchased an FM3 with the intention of using it live. This weekend I have connected the FM3 to the fx-return of my VHT UL for the first time and this instantly conjured up a huge smile on my face (and my band members).

It feels quite redundant to transport an amp like a VHT UL for the sole purpose of only using its power-amp. Currently I am debating whether to buy a Matrix GT1000FX again or invest in a VHT 2/50/2 or 2/90/2. The discussion between SS and tubes is ancient, but given that the Fractal algorithms have improved drastically, I would like some insights of the forum!

The Matrix is attractive because it weighs next to nothing, is affordable secondhand and would enable me to have a really compact and lightweight rig. An additional bonus is that this would enable me to have the power amp modelling active, meaning that there will be less difference between the sound from my cabinet and the signal I send to FOH with a cabinet IR. Given that I am so used to feeling the punch and air movement of my current setup, however, I am doubting whether I will get the same satisfaction.

The VHT 2/50/2 is a little more expensive and weighs significantly more. However, I fear that the 50-watt (mono cabinet) lacks clean headroom in the context of my band (loud post-metal that requires both massive distortion and loud cleans).

The Fryette 2/90/2 is the most expensive of the bunch, but shares the same tubes and circuit as the power section of my VHT Ultra Lead. I know that this setup will provide me with enough clean headroom. Given that I will probably not use power amp modelling with this setup, the difference between amp models might decrease?

So, what would you suggest? Going for a Matrix and hoping that I can tweak the presets to have the right feel, go for a 2/50/2 or 2/90/2 or just use the fx-return of my current amp?
 
I am using the FM3 into the return of a Marshall SLX. Cabs off. Power amps on. I can only think the return on the VHT would work well too.
The return of the VHT works really well and sounds absolutely incredible, but it somehow feels redundant to carry around head while I only use the power section. That's why I was looking into a dedicated power amp.
 
For me, running into a real amp FX loop is magical (assuming it’s a good quality loop). I’m using an EVH 50w head (which is smaller and lighter than a full sized head, but still...). I leave power amp sims on but with sag at its lowest “on” setting, and tend to prefer it that way. I don’t play live but if I did I think I’d like the aesthetic of having a real amp behind me. Of course I realize this is not always desired or ideal.

When I had the AxeFX II XL+ I had a Matrix pushing a pair of Mesa 2x12s and while it was pretty great it lacked a tiny bit of that extra something. I think it was probably that interaction between the speakers and a tube power section. I wasn’t quite able to dial that in at the time.

These days I say that if I was going the power amp route again I’d go with a real tube power amp (Mesa maybe).
 
I had both the Matrix GT1000FX and VHT 2/90/2 for years, and recently sold the VHT.

Since you already have a tube power section in the UL, give the matrix a try. If you dislike it you can always flip it and go for a 2/90/2. In my experience, the matrix can easily sound similar, but feel will be slightly different. You can get a bit closer by adjusting speaker resonance settings

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/...tions_and_levels#Power_amp_and_guitar_speaker
 
Thank you for all of the suggestions.

Although I was really looking forward to testing a power amp with tubes - definitely after experiencing the FM3 in the fx-return of my VHT Ultra Lead - I have decided to first try the solid state route again.

Last year I sold my Matrix GT1000FX which had been collecting dust for years, but I never delved into the advanced parameters with my Axe-Fx II. I now feel like I have a better understanding of how to approach this setup (adjusting the speaker resonance etc.).

By coincidence I found a GT1000FX for significantly less money than I sold mine for and the seller only lives a 40 minute drive from my home. So, tomorrow I am picking the unit up.

This gives me the possibility to compare the Matrix head to head with the VHT and adjust my presets accordingly. If all goes well, I have downsized my rig drastically. If I am not convinced, I keep using the fx-return (or upgrade to a tube power amp) and either sell the Matrix or keep it as a backup for playing live.

Looking forward to hearing it!
 
Power Station 100 is 100 watts, sounds incredible and you can run Power Amp sim ON because of its super flat response.
Yeah it works well for that purpose but it is mono, expensive and a bit heavy. The fan can be heard at low volume. I'd probably pick the PS if you also want to attenuate some real amps.
 
I'm currently in the middle of a rabbit hole testing PS 170, Orange Pedal Baby, Tube Amp FX Return (5150, as @Deadpool_25 said). Pedal Baby is on it's way..... right @JiveTurkey ?! :p

After testing the PS vs. tube amp, and ignoring my initial user error of leaving the impedance curve applied when using the 5150 (which essentially applies 2x impedance curves).... After fixing that error, I can say that the difference in tone between the PS and tube amp is subtle. There is a tiny bit of difference in feel (tube is slightly softer), and the highs are just very so slightly harsher on the PS (typical Class D amp issue, this can't be dialed out with the Treble knob - it's a characteristic of cheaper Class D amps). If you were in a live setting, you'd never notice the difference..... I'm interested to see how the Class AB Pedal Baby does.

Someone may have said this already - but if you use 2 outputs (1 to FOH and 1 to CAB), using the FX Return of a traditional tube amp creates an issue because for FOH you need impedance curve applied, and for CAB you shouldn't have it applied.... something to consider if that's what you do. That's one reason why I'm starting to shift toward a different amp. However if you us the rack gear you mentioned, you should be fine. That stuff is just out of my price range.

A real cab makes a huge difference and makes the FM3/Axe more enjoyable in my opinion (vs headphones or FRFR). I was using a 2x12 with Alnico Gold and Cream. Sounds amazing.

Edit - the next day I tried 2x Creams...... sounds even better.
 
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Great point, @JRod4928 . I have been running into the FX Loop return of a 100Watt amp into a 2 x 12
cab. Gonna try your "impedance curve" bypass tip tomorrow night at rehearsal. :)
 
It's a Crate Stealth.... 4 x EL34. Designed by Lee Jackson in the early 1990s when
LA Metal was being put in a coffin by the tidal wave of Grunge coming. Who knew?? :)

I have other amps, but the Crate has plenty of headroom and I can leave it all week at our
rehearsal space, and have mice chew on it with no fears of ruining a museum piece.
 
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