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FM3 Midi Block - Can I make it switch faster?

Hey Everyone!
I am loving the FM3 so far!
I'm using the FM3 with an FC12 in 4CM with a Bogner Ecstasy 3534 amp.
The FM3 sits on top of my amp to keep all audio cabling as short as possible.

The Bogner uses Momentary switching that is "Pulse Only," for channel switching.

I am using a Voodoo Lab Control Switcher to control the amp functions.
I have a midi block set up in my preset, and have set it properly for each Scene.
It works very well, but is slow.

I play music that has a lot of changes, and need fast channel changes on the amp.
The amp switches very fast with it's foot switch.

Does anyone know if there is a way to speed up Midi send capabilities or the Midi Block itself?
Thank you, and have a great holiday weekend!
 

Severed

Fractal Fanatic
I'm using the scene midi block to an EVH5150iii which has midi in for switching, and switching is instant. Might be the voodoo thing your using adding latency.
 
Thanks! I had thought of that, but I've used the Voodoo Lab on other amps with great success.
I have an RJM Mini Amp Gizmo too. I'll make a cable up for the Gizmo and try it this afternoon.
 

marshall2553

Experienced
I used the exact same setup for a little while and don’t recall noticing any latency with channel switching. If I get a chance this weekend I’ll hook everything back up and try it again.
 

chris

Legend!
do you have a hold function on the Scene switches? i don't know how much latency you're having, but do know that the Tap function fires when the switch is released if there is a Hold function on the same switch.

if it's just a bit after you tap the switch, it could be that. it'd be shorter than the Hold Timeout amount, so probably less than 1/2 a second.

if it's more latency then that, i'd check the Voodoo device. midi fires instantly from the FM3 in my use.
 

USMC_Trev

Fractal Fanatic
I read somewhere that circuits like the one that might be in that switcher deliberately raise their voltage Over a period of time (short to us but a long time in terms of electronics) on every switch so as not to wear out the circuitry (resistors, etc) prematurely - that is, if all circuits are not hot at the same time. Increasing heat by increasing current leading to damage over time. That might be the source of the perceived lag.
 
Thanks everyone!
I made a custom cable for my Mini Amp Gizmo. The delay in switching is still there.
It is definitely coming from the FM3. I’ll try the FM3 without the FC12 and see what happens.

A few of the Scenes have a Hold function on Their buttons, they are left over from the factory setup. The Hold functions are for Layout.

I’ve tried releasing the button faster as well. The delay is still present.

Basically, the amp switches a full beat after I push and release the Scene button.
 
What if you just trigger the Midi with the Test button in the midi block - does it switch faster?
The Bogner requires a Momentary "Pulse-Only" to change channels.
I did cycle through the Scenes while in the Edit page for the Midi block. It seems to have the same delay.

I'll experiment with moving the Midi block around.
It is currently in the middle of the Preset. I placed it between the portion of the Preset that is before the amp and after the amp.
I'm wondering if it will work faster if I place the block at the beginning of the Preset.
When I program remote controls for people, some functions have to be at the beginning of the Macro so that everything times out correctly. Not sure if that will work here, but I'll try it and report back.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
The Bogner requires a Momentary "Pulse-Only" to change channels.
I did cycle through the Scenes while in the Edit page for the Midi block. It seems to have the same delay.

I'll experiment with moving the Midi block around.
It is currently in the middle of the Preset. I placed it between the portion of the Preset that is before the amp and after the amp.
I'm wondering if it will work faster if I place the block at the beginning of the Preset.
When I program remote controls for people, some functions have to be at the beginning of the Macro so that everything times out correctly. Not sure if that will work here, but I'll try it and report back.
The placement of the midi block is not relevant as far as I'm aware and there's no audio playing through so it doesn't need to be in the signal chain.

You don't need to change scenes to trigger the midi - you can use the "Test" button in the block.

Also, when you're playing do you have the editor paused? If not, try pausing it or disconnecting it.
 
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Thanks!
I moved the midi block to be the very first block in the Preset. Figured it wouldn't hurt to try.
This didn't change anything.
I did notice though, that the Boost function on the amp works faster than changing channels does......
The Boost function uses a Momentary On/Off function.
The Channels use a Momentary On only function.
On the Amp Gizmo, the three relays that control the channel switching are "Grouped." This means that only one relay can close at a time to prevent odd channel switching behavior.
This may be adding a slight delay, not sure.

The FM3 is not connected to a computer at the moment.

I think that the Test button does not work for me because the Amp Gizmo is set up to only pulse once on the Scene/PC command.

I did find this thread that mentions a delay when switching Scenes if certain Blocks are in the Preset: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/just-got-my-fm3-has-anyone-else-noticed-this.160611/

I've been practicing changing Scenes earlier than I normally would and it seems to be working out.
If I press the new Scene button about a half a second earlier than I need it to change.
I basically need to press the button when I hit the last note of the passage that I am playing to make the amp change in time for the next part of the song.
Everything else seems to be working perfectly and sounding incredible, so it's a reasonable work around for now. Hopefully newer Firmware (when it becomes available) will speed things up for me.

All in all, the FM3 is pretty damn incredible!
 

unix-guy

Legend!
What about testing a preset that has only Input, Output and Scene Midi blocks?

Just to see if the scene switching time is impacting things?

Based on what you've said about the switching speed of other functions, I'm leaning towards the Amp Gizmo being the problem... But I think this is a tricky thing to prove.

Maybe you could contact RJM to see if they have any feedback. I understand they are pretty helpful.
 
I'll give that a try!
I also realized that I can change the PC # on the Midi block and then push Test.....

As for the RJM, possibly. I had the same problems with the Voodoo Lab Control Switcher.
The amp changes instantly with it's foot switch, so that leads me to believe that it's not the amp itself.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I forgot you mentioned the problem with other switcher.

Interesting to see your results with the Test button.

Also... I assume you put the switchers on a different midi channel than the FM3? And also a specific channel, not "Omni/all"? Not sure that matters but possible there is additional midi being sent on the FM3 channel.

If you have a USB to Midi adapter, you could also try using Midi-OX or some other similar utility on your computer to see what midi is coming in over that channel when you change scenes.
 
I originally had the Switcher on Channel 2 and the FM on Channel 1 when I was using the Control Switcher.
I changed the Switcher back to Channel 1 for the RJM. I'll switch it to Channel 2 and see if that changes things.
I wasn't sure if it mattered because I'm using the FC12 instead of a Midi Pedal with the FM3.

I did change the PC # within the Midi Block for Scene 1 and then push the Test button.
It changes much faster this way than trying to select a Scene.

I removed the FC12 and tried just using the 3 buttons on the FM3 to change Scenes.
I was wondering if the added switching and cabling would make a difference.
The delay is still there.

I'll look through my garage for a USB to Midi adapter. I used to have one, but may have given it away.
Might have to order another one. Pretty hard thing to find where I live.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
If the Test button is much faster than scene change then it may be an issue in the FM3.

What FW are you running? Try the latest Beta and see if it helps.

Might be worth contacting Fractal support, too. Possible the midi block could be "prioritized" during scene changes so it's processed earlier?
 
I'll give that a try!
Currently using 1.05 Firmware

How do I find the Beta Firmware? The only link I see on FAS website is for 1.05
 
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