FM3 - Live usage with tablet?

luca_vezza

Member
I am looking for a way to use my Windows tablet in live gigs to control my FM3 (to complement the basic things I do with the 3 on-board switches). I'm thinking of simple actions like:
  • change preset (I use the FC switches to change scene in a given preset)
  • show/hide the tuner
  • tune out level of current scene.

These features are of course available in the FM3-Edit, but its UI is definitely not suited for touch interaction (try changing the preset...). So I guess I need to go for something different.

Does anybody have a suggestion on how to achieve the above?
Thanks a bunch.

Luca
 
Search the forum for the FracPad thread...
Well, I did before asking this, and I had a quick look at it. My impression was that it is not fully up to the recent updates (firmware 6 on FM3), so maybe it was not a good candidate. In any case I will give it a try at this point, thanks.
 
Well, I did before asking this, and I had a quick look at it. My impression was that it is not fully up to the recent updates (firmware 6 on FM3), so maybe it was not a good candidate. In any case I will give it a try at this point, thanks.
Good to know, but your OP didn't mention that... And there's not really another option as far as an editor ;)

You could use something like BandHelper to change presets or send predefined midi. Maybe it could do the things you're after with the right setup
 
I am looking for a way to use my Windows tablet in live gigs to control my FM3 (to complement the basic things I do with the 3 on-board switches). I'm thinking of simple actions like:
  • change preset (I use the FC switches to change scene in a given preset)
  • show/hide the tuner
I'd look into MIDI controllers that'd run on the tablet. You'll need a way to connect to the MIDI port too.

  • tune out level of current scene.
These features are of course available in the FM3-Edit, but its UI is definitely not suited for touch interaction (try changing the preset...). So I guess I need to go for something different.
You should use Edit to set your levels before you get to a venue; The Preset Leveling tool is very helpful for that.

In addition, set one of the knobs in the Global Performance page on the front panel to control either the Out or Amp block's level, but to use it live you'll need your fingers.
 
Good to know, but your OP didn't mention that... And there's not really another option as far as an editor ;)

You could use something like BandHelper to change presets or send predefined midi. Maybe it could do the things you're after with the right setup
Yeah, you're right, I should have mentioned that. Anyway, just looked a bit closers to FracPad and no updates seem to have come in the last months, so not clear if it works with the latest firmware. Also, on its FB page is described as "an iOS/Android editor for FAS", which does not push me to try it on Windows for FM3...
About BandHelper, I'll look into that. Sounds a bit more complicated as I would need an additional interface between the tablet and the FM3 (as it it does take MIDI over USB).

Out of curiosity: is there a way to deeply customize (even via custom coding) the FM3-Edit or create a new, minimalist tool? I mean, the person who wrote FracPad is driving the FM3 via USB: is there an SDK to do that?

Thanks anyway.
 
In addition, set one of the knobs in the Global Performance page on the front panel to control either the Out or Amp block's level, but to use it live you'll need your fingers.
Yeah I know, I do have a knob set for that, but it's not ideal. My point is: I'd like to just use my foot to move basic things on the FM3 (as it's on the floor), and do the rest via a tablet (more accessible with hands).
 
Yeah, you're right, I should have mentioned that. Anyway, just looked a bit closers to FracPad and no updates seem to have come in the last months, so not clear if it works with the latest firmware. Also, on its FB page is described as "an iOS/Android editor for FAS", which does not push me to try it on Windows for FM3...
About BandHelper, I'll look into that. Sounds a bit more complicated as I would need an additional interface between the tablet and the FM3 (as it it does take MIDI over USB).

Out of curiosity: is there a way to deeply customize (even via custom coding) the FM3-Edit or create a new, minimalist tool? I mean, the person who wrote FracPad is driving the FM3 via USB: is there an SDK to do that?

Thanks anyway.
I'm not sure where you're looking but it was updated about 3 weeks ago for all new generation devices:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...x8-fx8-axe-fx-iii-and-fm3.120946/post-2355108

The editors are not really customizable.

FracPad does allow for custom formats, I think.

There's no SDK. Al worked hard to figure things to write FracPad and I believe Fractal may have shared a bit of proprietary info with him under an NDA.
 
I'm not sure where you're looking but it was updated about 3 weeks ago for all new generation devices:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...x8-fx8-axe-fx-iii-and-fm3.120946/post-2355108

The editors are not really customizable.

FracPad does allow for custom formats, I think.

There's no SDK. Al worked hard to figure things to write FracPad and I believe Fractal may have shared a bit of proprietary info with him under an NDA.
Thanks for pointing that page out, I was simply checking their FB page (listed as their "official" web page here: https://fracpad.e-junkie.com/product/1523265).

And for the SDK, yeah, I supposed that was the case.
 
Hi. I've finally spent some time with FracPad and no, unfortunately that does not solve my issue.
I'm on a Windows 11 tablet (Surface) and there the software is not very usable, in my opinion. Frequent freezes, crashes and issues with UI getting garbled. So I still need to find a way.
I'll keep looking. For now I've customized a bit the FM3 layout so to use the 3 switches to do my basic things, so to I can handle normal changes in live context (preset and scene).
Thanks all for your input anyway.
 
I am looking for a way to use my Windows tablet in live gigs to control my FM3 (to complement the basic things I do with the 3 on-board switches). I'm thinking of simple actions like:
  • change preset (I use the FC switches to change scene in a given preset)
  • show/hide the tuner
  • tune out level of current scene.

These features are of course available in the FM3-Edit, but its UI is definitely not suited for touch interaction (try changing the preset...). So I guess I need to go for something different.

Does anybody have a suggestion on how to achieve the above?
Thanks a bunch.

Luca

It sounds like you want TouchOsc. Connect it with a usb-to-midi cable.
 
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I'm a big fan of using a BandHelper annual subscription on an iPad to send midi to Fractal. I've been using it with an Axe FX III and just converted to a FM9 today. I'm sure FM3 setup is very similar if not identical. Once setup, it changes the Fractal to the right preset and patch each time the song changes no matter how the band arranged the songs. Here are some notes for the setup:

(1) A QUICCO SOUND Bluetooth MIDI Adapter mi.1, or similar device, plugged into the Fractal's midi in & out enables wireless receiving of midi from an iPad.

(2) In BandHelper, create a Midi Device record to identify the FM3 midi port and channel. The channel number must match the FM3's Settings > General > MIDI/Remote > Send Midi PC.
(Note: I don't think the BandHelper's Settings > Remote Control > midi settings are applicable unless you want BandHelper to receive midi in addition to sending midi.)

(3) Use Fractal's Setup > MIDI/Remote > Other > Scene Select to set a CC # value

(4) In BandHelper, create Midi presets.
Raw Midi Device = the device that you created in step #2​

For preset 130 scene 2, for example:
Program Changes Bank MSB = 1 (if the 1st bank is 0 to 127 and the 2nd bank is 128 to 255 then enter 1 because preset 130 is part of the 2nd bank)​
Program Changes, Bank LSB = (I leave this blank)​
Program Changes, Program = 2 (because 128 + 2 = preset 130)​
Control Changes, Controller = the value that you set in step #3.​
Control Changes, Value = 1 (because 0 is for scene 1 and 1 is for scene 2 when Preset Inc/Dec Start = 0)​
Fractal's manuals have a good MIDI BANK & PROGRAM CHANGE section that lists the values for presets.
(Note: The above example assumes that you left the default of 0 at FM3 Setup > MIDI/Remote > Other > Preset Inc/Dec Start = 0.)

(5) In BankHelper, create songs and associate them with the Midi presets from step #4 as well as lyrics, and recordings.

(6) Connect BankHelper to midi before each performance. I have BandHelper setup to view song lyrics with a midi icon on the screen. Click that icon to connect the bluetooth midi each time you turn on your Fractal.
 
I'm a big fan of using a BandHelper annual subscription on an iPad to send midi to Fractal. I've been using it with an Axe FX III and just converted to a FM9 today. I'm sure FM3 setup is very similar if not identical. Once setup, it changes the Fractal to the right preset and patch each time the song changes no matter how the band arranged the songs. Here are some notes for the setup:

(1) A QUICCO SOUND Bluetooth MIDI Adapter mi.1, or similar device, plugged into the Fractal's midi in & out enables wireless receiving of midi from an iPad.

(2) In BandHelper, create a Midi Device record to identify the FM3 midi port and channel. The channel number must match the FM3's Settings > General > MIDI/Remote > Send Midi PC.
(Note: I don't think the BandHelper's Settings > Remote Control > midi settings are applicable unless you want BandHelper to receive midi in addition to sending midi.)

(3) Use Fractal's Setup > MIDI/Remote > Other > Scene Select to set a CC # value

(4) In BandHelper, create Midi presets.
Raw Midi Device = the device that you created in step #2​

For preset 130 scene 2, for example:
Program Changes Bank MSB = 1 (if the 1st bank is 0 to 127 and the 2nd bank is 128 to 255 then enter 1 because preset 130 is part of the 2nd bank)​
Program Changes, Bank LSB = (I leave this blank)​
Program Changes, Program = 2 (because 128 + 2 = preset 130)​
Control Changes, Controller = the value that you set in step #3.​
Control Changes, Value = 1 (because 0 is for scene 1 and 1 is for scene 2 when Preset Inc/Dec Start = 0)​
Fractal's manuals have a good MIDI BANK & PROGRAM CHANGE section that lists the values for presets.
(Note: The above example assumes that you left the default of 0 at FM3 Setup > MIDI/Remote > Other > Preset Inc/Dec Start = 0.)

(5) In BankHelper, create songs and associate them with the Midi presets from step #4 as well as lyrics, and recordings.

(6) Connect BankHelper to midi before each performance. I have BandHelper setup to view song lyrics with a midi icon on the screen. Click that icon to connect the bluetooth midi each time you turn on your Fractal.
I am considering making the jump to FC3 and I think you answered my concern but I want to make sure.

Currently I am using a mostly analog setup. Guitar into a RJM PBC6x with analog pedals in loops. The PBC is also sending midi changes to a plethora 3x for delays and modulations. Then out to a tube head and a Two Notes Captor X cab sim to front of house. I run Bandhelper on my phone with our bands setlists which change from gig to gig.

Currently I have next song and previous song button on my PBC6x that sends midi to bandhelper telling it to move up or down the playlist, in return bandhelper sends midi changes back to the PBC6x telling it what song to choose on the PBC6x and the PBC6x sets up what preset each button turns on. Pretty much every song has 2 - 3 presets. Usually a part A, Part B, Solo.

I think fractal uses different language. RJM's song would be equivalent to preset and RJM's preset would be more like a scene? In RJM's world a preset is eactly what is turned on or off and what midi messages are sent when a button is pressed or released.

My question is could I use the same basic functionality on the FM3?

Bank up on the FM3 to tell Band helper to move along a band helper setlist, have band helper tell the FM3 to set up 3 foot switches with 3 distinct sounds. Then choose the sounds via the 3 foot switches.

Sorry for the length of the question just don't want to pull the trigger just to find out I cannot use it with our bands work flow.
 
have band helper tell the FM3 to set up 3 foot switches with 3 distinct sounds. Then choose the sounds via the 3 foot switches.
I configured BandHelper to tell the Fractal which preset, and scene within that preset, to change to when a song is selected in BandHelper. Each Fractal preset has 8 scenes. I generally have my foot switches configured for rhythm on the first switch, clean on the second switch, lead on the third switch, and other misc switches. For example, the band can re-arrange the songs in the set list all they want. BandHelper will still, for example, change my Fractal from preset 402 scene 3 to preset 241 scene 2 if that is where I need to be for the song that was just selected. That scene is the tone for me to start the song and the foot switches all display appropriate labels to help me do my switching within the song. If I need to make a tone change to play a lead with my bridge pickup then I know that switch 3 is for my lead tone within that preset and scene is named 'Bridge' to make that scene foot switch label remind me which pickup to use.

I really don't use BandHelper to directly "set up 3 foot switches" via commands that set up foot switches. That is, it isn't sending foot switch midi commands. It is sending midi commands to switch to presets and scenes. I don't think it is necessary to try to directly setup foot switches with midi commands. You can setup the foot switches as you want them to be when setting up everything else in a saved preset and scene.
Currently I have next song and previous song button on my PBC6x that sends midi to bandhelper telling it to move up or down the playlist
I never tried sending midi to BandHelper. I just interact with BandHelper to control BandHelper. Sending Midi from a Fractal is explained on this video... 'Axe-Fx III Midi Block Basics - How to Send PC & CC Commands'. I suppose you could have a preset with a Midi block on it. Have one scene to tell BandHelper to go to the previous song and another scene to tell BandHelper to go to the next song. Then configure foot switches to go to those scenes.
 
I configured BandHelper to tell the Fractal which preset, and scene within that preset, to change to when a song is selected in BandHelper. Each Fractal preset has 8 scenes. I generally have my foot switches configured for rhythm on the first switch, clean on the second switch, lead on the third switch, and other misc switches. For example, the band can re-arrange the songs in the set list all they want. BandHelper will still, for example, change my Fractal from preset 402 scene 3 to preset 241 scene 2 if that is where I need to be for the song that was just selected. That scene is the tone for me to start the song and the foot switches all display appropriate labels to help me do my switching within the song. If I need to make a tone change to play a lead with my bridge pickup then I know that switch 3 is for my lead tone within that preset and scene is named 'Bridge' to make that scene foot switch label remind me which pickup to use.

I really don't use BandHelper to directly "set up 3 foot switches" via commands that set up foot switches. That is, it isn't sending foot switch midi commands. It is sending midi commands to switch to presets and scenes. I don't think it is necessary to try to directly setup foot switches with midi commands. You can setup the foot switches as you want them to be when setting up everything else in a saved preset and scene.

I never tried sending midi to BandHelper. I just interact with BandHelper to control BandHelper. Sending Midi from a Fractal is explained on this video... 'Axe-Fx III Midi Block Basics - How to Send PC & CC Commands'. I suppose you could have a preset with a Midi block on it. Have one scene to tell BandHelper to go to the previous song and another scene to tell BandHelper to go to the next song. Then configure foot switches to go to those scenes.
Thankyou!
That's pretty much exactly what I want, Bandhelper would choose the preset and then I could use scenes to set up the three switches. If I have to use my finger to choose songs I could, but I bet there is a way to make a long press send midi to bandhelper in order to advance the set list.
I put myself on the waitlist for FM3 so fingers crossed!
 
I bet there is a way to make a long press send midi to bandhelper in order to advance the set list.
Among the ways to configure each foot switch, holding a foot switch can be configured for Category = Scene, Function = Select, Scene = 8, for example. If you have a Midi block on scene 8 configured to send the appropriate midi commands to BandHelper then I think that will do it.
 
Among the ways to configure each foot switch, holding a foot switch can be configured for Category = Scene, Function = Select, Scene = 8, for example. If you have a Midi block on scene 8 configured to send the appropriate midi commands to BandHelper then I think that will do it.
Use of Scene Midi for this is probably not the right option because ALL presets would need that configured.

Control Switch Midi is probably the best way.
 
Use of Scene Midi for this is probably not the right option because ALL presets would need that configured.

Control Switch Midi is probably the best way.
Yeah. I read about using a control switch for Midi but couldn't find it. Now I see that the Control Switch midi settings are configured in the unit at Setup | FC Controllers/Onboard Switches | CS Midi. Then PRStang65 can configure a foot switch to trigger it with hold by setting the switch for Category = Control Switch, Function= Momentary, Control Switch=CS1.
 
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