FM3 input pad setting for hot pickups (again)

Chromatizm

Experienced
Following the latest forum "input" discussions, I'm trying to find the best input pad setting for my Fishman Abasi's to avoid clipping. It was suggested to simply record a DI signal and look for a clipping signs, I did a few tests here and here. The signs were there big time, but @DLC86 mentioned I was doing it wrong, so I started from scratch after checking all relevant section of the manual again.

Recording via USB a simple In1->Out1 preset, all defaults in both blocks, gate threshold off. Validation screenshot:
1680174864304.png
Manual says this: "Choose your loudest pickup setting and set all the guitar controls to “wide open.” Play loud, open chords to push the levels as you watch the IN 1 [INSTRUMENT] meter LEDs. It’s OK to tickle the red LED once in a while, but if actual clipping occurs, you must pad the input".

Screenshots below show the results for biggest peaks for 0 to 6 to 12 to 18dB (left to right) with some very strange 12 and 18dB peaks - they basically have... dips? What are those?
1680175679783.png1680175724196.png1680175751145.png1680175783680.png
I don't know what to make of it. I'm confused. So I'm following this advise: "PS: or, in alternative, turn down the level parameter in the OUT1 block to -18 dB" and re-recording. The results are:
1680176031057.png1680176076587.png1680176199062.png1680176229805.png

So it seems that 0dB does result in clipping. Good to know. Not sure what to make of -6dB results. I've did same test a few times and I think that -6dB are not clipping. UPD: nope, definitely clipping sometimes.
But what about the clipping I've got when the Out1 block (not hw button) was set to 0dB? There are dips even with -6dB padding in some cases:
1680176485500.png
So I should work with the Out1 block output volume until I find the value which doesn't result in any visible artifacts in the graphs and apply it to all my presets? I've tried a few but everything above -18dB seems to hit the reds in the Out1 output meter periodically.

Is this it? The problem is in the Out1 block right on the grid? I should use -6dB -12dB padding with -18dB in the Out1? I'm am so lost with all this.

@State of Epicicity I'm not sure this is what you are looking for but maybe these results would be somehow useful to you too.
 
Last edited:
Following the latest forum "input" discussions, I'm trying to find the best input pad setting for my Fishman Abasi's to avoid clipping. It was suggested to simply record a DI signal and look for a clipping signs, I did a few tests here and here. The signs were there big time, but @DLC86 mentioned I was doing it wrong, so I started from scratch after checking all relevant section of the manual again.

Recording via USB a simple In1->Out1 preset, all defaults in both blocks, gate threshold off. Validation screenshot:
View attachment 118526
Manual says this: "Choose your loudest pickup setting and set all the guitar controls to “wide open.” Play loud, open chords to push the levels as you watch the IN 1 [INSTRUMENT] meter LEDs. It’s OK to tickle the red LED once in a while, but if actual clipping occurs, you must pad the input".

Screenshots below show the results for biggest peaks for 0 to 6 to 12 to 18dB (left to right) with some very strange 12 and 18dB peaks - they basically have... dips? What are those?
View attachment 118527View attachment 118528View attachment 118529View attachment 118530
I don't know what to make of it. I'm confused. So I'm following this advise: "PS: or, in alternative, turn down the level parameter in the OUT1 block to -18 dB" and re-recording. The results are:
View attachment 118531View attachment 118532View attachment 118533View attachment 118534

So it seems that 0dB does result in clipping. Good to know. Not sure what to make of -6dB results. I've did same test a few times and I think that -6dB are not clipping. UPD: nope, definitely clipping sometimes.
But what about the clipping I've got when the Out1 block (not hw button) was set to 0dB? There are dips even with -6dB padding in some cases:
View attachment 118535
So I should work with the Out1 block output volume until I find the value which doesn't result in any visible artifacts in the graphs and apply it to all my presets? I've tried a few but everything above -18dB seems to hit the reds in the Out1 output meter periodically.

Is this it? The problem is in the Out1 block right on the grid? I should use -6dB -12dB padding with -18dB in the Out1? I'm am so lost with all this.

@State of Epicicity I'm not sure this is what you are looking for but maybe these results would be somehow useful to you too.

Dude, thank you so much for putting so much into this. I'm out of town, and I don't know when I'll be able to do my own testing about input levels. I don't know what to say here except, the more posted about it, the more they have to work with. Really appreciate you getting so far into it.
 
So I should work with the Out1 block output volume until I find the value which doesn't result in any visible artifacts in the graphs and apply it to all my presets? I've tried a few but everything above -18dB seems to hit the reds in the Out1 output meter periodically.

Is this it? The problem is in the Out1 block right on the grid? I should use -6dB -12dB padding with -18dB in the Out1? I'm am so lost with all this.

I think you're making it too complicated. Your results show 0 dB padding is too high. Period. Any blocks in the grid, including your Output block, are irrelevant. So, set the input padding to 6 or 12 and leave it there.

When you are done with that, it's time to move on to a new issue, which is adjusting your output level. Use the meter in the output block and adjust the output level, preferably with the level parameter of your amp block, until the meter shows a value somewhere around 0 dBVU.
 
When you are done with that, it's time to move on to a new issue, which is adjusting your output level. Use the meter in the output block and adjust the output level, preferably with the level parameter of your amp block, until the meter shows a value somewhere around 0 dBVU.
That what I always did. The Preset Leveling was always open (I wish they made it part of the main window, it's really bad that each time you have to switch to another window you have to switch back to two windows!), and none of my presets touched the red lately. Always one-two dB below the 0. My typical Amp Level setting is -20 to -15dB.
But as you can clearly see from the captures above, it results in some digital artifacts. So Out1 block needs adjusting itself - or I'm misinterpreting what this graph shows when Out1 block level is 0:
1680176485500-png.118535

This dip inside the peak - what it this? Cubase recording artifact or Out1 block clipping? There are none of such artifacts when Out1 block volume is set to -18dB, but they are everywhere when it is 0.
Again, this is not Out1 HW button, I've realized finally why people say that it is not the same as Out1 block. All this captured via USB. Yes, I'm slow, but methodical.
 
If you've followed my instructions above, you now have your input and output levels set correctly and you're now ready to start using your FM3. As for this new issue, no, that's not clipping and is unrelated to your input and output levels. It looks like a dropout, perhaps due to a cpu overload. Try a larger audio buffer size.
 
After reading the posts and thread on the axe 3 forum, I decided to change the settings and never hit the red and I’m done for the moment.
 
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