FM3 for REAL Jazz

PatrickWD said:
Thank you.

This is the kind of tone i'm after, so i haven't tried getting that tone from the solid state amps you posted yet. I could give it a try though.
I'm playing guitar in a stage musical at the moment so my Fm3 is on that stage, so i can't try it now. But the last show is next monday, so i can give it a try after that when i have my Fm3 at home.

The Hendriksen jazz amp is more or less an eq with amplification and reverb, so i think i would not use a amp block and go for a 1x10 ir that has a lot of low mids, use a paramentric eq block to do high and low cuts, and a graphic eq to work as the Henriksen tonestack. Probably a very slight compression as well from a compressor block, since most amps add some compression.
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I cant wait to try it out as soon I'll be back in my home town where my FM3 is (Rome, Italy).
thanks again and congratulations for your stage musical work.
f
 
abendJazz said:
RULES FOR THE DISCUSSION:
1. NO Roland Jazz Chorus: despite the name, it's a strange amp with big clean headroom, yet it's commonly NOT used for jazz just bc it DOES NOT has a typical jazz sound
2. FENDERs: you can force some of them to simulate a sort jazz sound, but they're not intended primary for jazz...
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Actually the George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe is but if you don't want a Fender that's fine.

laxu said:
The "real jazz" discussion is stupid gatekeeping and nothing else.
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I have to disagree with this.

The "real Jazz" thing became an issue when "Smooth Jazz" became popular and it was a term used to differentiate music rooted in the historic Jazz tradition from what I consider commercial instrumental elevator music.

abendJazz said:
I couldnt post before, so here a 2 examples of iconic jazz guitar sounds




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I like the tone in the first clip a lot. Since it's clearly what you like I think you should just get a Polytone and call it a day.
 
abendJazz said:
Hey Thank you!
Your playing and lessons are amazing, such as your tone :)

I think this is a good example: even tho I definitively appreciate your tone, if you have time try to listen to the clips I posted, you will notice thatthe attack and sustain of the notes are mostly different, compared to yours: I can feel that 'valvish' attack in your sound that I was trying to avoid, in favor of a more defined, clear yet warm and beefy attack you get from the SS amps I posted, and where the 'prominence' of low-mids gives also that 'sustain' to the note (but without compression).

Didi you, with your experience on this device, ever tried to get also that tone? I bet, but I should try to tell, that starting from your preset I could accomplish the tonal balance I desire, still I'm not sure I can fix the note attack thing, since it seems 'connaturated' to the device.
I had the same issue with my former HX Stomp, and that's the reason I finally got rid of him, after years of tries.

cheers and again thank you!!
Fabio
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One thing you could try is to use a shunt in parallel with the amp block, followed by an EQ and then route all this to the cab. This will preserve the attack while still giving you the warmth of the Dumble clean channel.
 
abendJazz said:
I couldnt post before, so here a 2 examples of iconic jazz guitar sounds




Click to expand...


IMHO, those amps have a goal of transparency and I feel pretty confident you could get either very easily with the FM3 using the TubePre block or even without an amp and just using a EQ block with some slight compression, and an IR of the amp's speaker.
 
Will Chen said:
IMHO, those amps have a goal of transparency and I feel pretty confident you could get either very easily with the FM3 using the TubePre block or even without an amp and just using a EQ block with some slight compression, and an IR of the amp's speaker.
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Tube Pre and maybe disable Power Amp modeling in the block.
 
Cab Block with proper IR and Preamp setting plus EQ perhaps, or maybe a Drive Block with a clean FET Boost and EQ? These should model solid state components etc?

Tube Pre defaults to power amp off I believe, at least it used to?

Clean is clean, any number of ways to get there, though the IR is critical for a Polytone or other so called jazz amp sim etc.
 
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abendJazz said:
So far, I checked all ampli but I cant find any jazz oriented amplifier.
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Jazz is usually associated with a clean amp and less aggressive tone settings. There's a ton of clean amp models and they have... tone controls. Try them and find one you like the response of and adjust.

You should research a jazz player who has a tone you like and try similar amp models. There are no real-world amps labeled jazz, except the roland.

https://www.guitarmeet.com/the-best-guitar-amps-for-jazz/
 
Thinking back to the 70's and 80's, seemed the main reason players went from say, a Twin Reverb to Polytone was more based on hauling it around than tone goals. Or because the Twin had tube or cap issues. Certainly were exceptions and my memory may be selective. Our big band had a JC in the rehearsal room.
 
JoKeR III said:
Just a public service announcement: It doesn't default to 'Off' anymore (if indeed it did in the past) but it is very simple to turn it off in the 'Power Amp' page.
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The Tube Pre's PA used to default to off on the Axe II as I remember, but I haven't used it with my FM3 so I was just guessing LOL (just checked, it's tweaked for clean but defaults to on)!
 
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stratzrus said:
Actually the George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe is but if you don't want a Fender that's fine.



I have to disagree with this.

The "real Jazz" thing became an issue when "Smooth Jazz" became popular and it was a term used to differentiate music rooted in the historic Jazz tradition from what I consider commercial instrumental elevator music.



I like the tone in the first clip a lot. Since it's clearly what you like I think you should just get a Polytone and call it a day.
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I agree with you.

Just to clarify a bit, the 'real jazz' thing is refered to the TONE, being this a Guitar Tone forum, not referred to what is real jazz music.

Unfortunately, it seems some people are very picky about their rock tones, but very easy when it comes to other styles, and it seems thay're especially 'not sensitive' about jazz tones: a clean sound playing a fancy chord and that's it, if you need more specific (or classic 'real jazz' sound, like I wrote) then you're looking for the wrong tone...and redirected to rock-ish/jazz-ish sounds (stern, holdsworth, carlton, etc) and treated pretty much like a troll if you insist that that's not what you look for...
 
NeoSound said:
Jazz is usually associated with a clean amp and less aggressive tone settings. There's a ton of clean amp models and they have... tone controls. Try them and find one you like the response of and adjust.

You should research a jazz player who has a tone you like and try similar amp models. There are no real-world amps labeled jazz, except the roland.

https://www.guitarmeet.com/the-best-guitar-amps-for-jazz/
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sorry: just..no, clean amp is another thing.
and yes, the are DEFINITIVELY jazz focused (and marketed) amps out there: Henriksen, Evans, Polytone, JazzKat..just to name a few, and those are the one a jazz guitarists will look for; excluding JazzCHorus that's not a choice for anyone (but I understand that the name can confuse you if you're not into jazz music).

The link you posted is a good example: this guy makes a list of best 'jazz amps', then he shows up the 'best', Fender blues junior, and guess what? He plays a funky strat sound out of it.... ;)

Hope it helps to clarify.
peace and greetings :)
 
Very interesting discussion.

Searching for a "real" jazz tone is some kind of nonsense, just because there are so many different styles, way of playing, big band or solo, etc...

But you all understand what "Jazz sound " means .
We all have examples in our head from the great players, even if Wes Montgomery doesn't sound like Jim Hall or Django Reinhard.

Why not giving a try at Tone Match if you have a reference sound at your disposal ?
Tone match may replace basically a cab , an IR, or even a complete amp.
It may make a Strat sounds about like an acoustic guitar for example.

I suppose it may help you to solve your quest in some extend.

Pick up a nice clean amp you like , among fender , bogner shiva, Matchless DC30, Mesa clean, .....
Put it a tone match block instead of the cab, and you should be not so far from your expectation.
 
The principle is here.
It is for matching an electric rock sound, but it applies to any sound you want to emulate.
(Tone matching is some kind of very precise EQ which mimic a sound I would say)
 
manu68 said:
Very interesting discussion.

Searching for a "real" jazz tone is some kind of nonsense, just because there are so many different styles, way of playing, big band or solo, etc...

But you all understand what "Jazz sound " means .
We all have examples in our head from the great players, even if Wes Montgomery doesn't sound like Jim Hall or Django Reinhard.

Why not giving a try at Tone Match if you have a reference sound at your disposal ?
Tone match may replace basically a cab , an IR, or even a complete amp.
It may make a Strat sounds about like an acoustic guitar for example.

I suppose it may help you to solve your quest in some extend.

Pick up a nice clean amp you like , among fender , bogner shiva, Matchless DC30, Mesa clean, .....
Put it a tone match block instead of the cab, and you should be not so far from your expectation.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, for what I know and read there's no Tone Matching block on FM3, glad if I'm missing something here!

Manu, thank you for your contribution, if you read the first post, I spent so much effort to try to narrow the discussion on the classic jazz tone I'm looking for, unfortunately (again) without any success.

All amps you mentioned are not focused on jazz tone, unfortunately (again) play them in the clean zone doesnt make them suitable (you can read detailed reasons in the 'wish thread' with same name), such as one and only cranked amp type isnt good for all rock genres.

ciao
 
The gorilla in the room that the op has not mentioned (??) is what exactly is he monitoring through? IEM, studio monitors, guitar cab, frfr???? That is going to have a huge impact on what his guitar sounds like. As much and possibly more than the amp settings.

Sean Meredith-Jones
 
I don’t think the issue is sensitivity to rock vs jazz tones. It is a matter of demand and semantics. There is no arguing that the majority of the amps in the Fractal universe are traditional rock, blues, and metal amps. Those are the styles that the vast majority of the users play. That said, those users also have a vast range of ideas on what “their” tone is based on personal experience (guitars, amps, favorite artists, etc). It is clear that you have a sound or sounds in your head. Can they be achieved with the Axe? I would say yes, but it will take time and tweaking based on what you’ve told us.

If you’re willing to put in that time, do it. Learn the unit and amps, ask for help, etc. If not, I would say you’re better off buying one of those specific amps. It sounds like your tone is quite specific. The likelihood that Fractal is going to add a bunch of “jazz” amps as you describe them anytime soon is not high based on the aforementioned demand. If you want solutions, the help is here. If you want to be heard, you can do that here too, but it is not going to help you solve your problem. Good luck either way.
 
@abendJazz what's the advantage of using a complex device that can generate many kinds of tones and effects, if you only want one sound, and can't figure out how to get it out of that device?

Is it portability you're after? The bigger part of an FM3 rig is going to be your monitoring (amp and speakers), which isn't likely to be much smaller or lighter than one of your reference amps.

Back in Fractal land, I can't get past the idea that if you want completely clean and uncompressed tone, the only variable left is EQ, which the FM3 gives you control over in many ways. What else is there?
 
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