FM3 Firmware Version 4.00 beta 1

It's new modeling, so guaranteed there will be updated presets.

Based on the way its gone to date with the FM3, probably gonna be about a month me thinks.
I say.. no way it will be that long! Optimism :) Matt posted the finished Cygnus preset banks for the III yesterday, so...
 
I've done several presets with Mesa, Diezel, Engl, FAS modern that sounds very similar when using the same IRs.
Only choosing different IRs make them sound really different.
And that's for sure not because the amp modeling is bad.

I've used the same physical cab for years with several amps and modelers and so I got also "my" sound every time.

But now I use FRFR and 2 selfmade fullrange cabs because I now want some difference when using different IRs.
The IR is only time invariant frequency response. It's just eq. Our hears (and mind) is nitpicking regardimg frequency, while phase, attack, harmonics... well... we need a lot more education to discern why "feel" is different. A Cab has time variant response: resonance, distortion... the cab block indeed is an IR player AND a compressor, distortion, eq, resonance... the amp process also the impedance of the cone, that is outside of an IR!
Comparing similar amp and say they sound similar thru same IR... yes. True. nyone can guess a twin from engl with same IR. So amp is important, cab is important, IR is important. We can obtain different sound, or similar sound changin only some parameters. All to taste.
 
Is the low output of Output 2 a universal thing? Is there anyone who isn't having the issue? Curious if I should bring mic cables to rehearsal and use Output 1 until the next FW update..

Out 2 volume was way down Saturday, for me, and now I have rehearsal again tonight
and need that Out 2 to run into the return of my amp. Thinking about reverting back to 3.02,
which is where I was before the Cygnus Beta update I dove into.
 
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I have always had the opinion that the speakers and cabinet are a very sizeable piece of the picture. It's just a fact. 95% is a stretch. But I would say 40% of an amps character is the speaker cabinet. In a tube amp, the power section reacts to the speakers, and the speakers react to the amp.

40% sounds reasonable. :)

I do think it is interesting to point out that Cygnus seems to have more to do (as well as other updates
in the past), and maybe "mostly" to do with improving the existing amp modeling technology and approach,
including the algorithms, and a bunch of technical aspects I would never understand in several lifetimes. :)
 
Out 2 volume was way down Saturday, for me, and now I have rehearsal again tonight
and need that Out 2 to run into the return of my amp. Thinking about reverting back to 3.02,
which is where I was before the Cygnus Beta update I dove into.
eh. I'll just bring mic cables just in case. I don't want to bother with potentially low outputs and/or adding and configuring a second output block on 20 different presets.
 
Thanks, they tell me the same in the facebook group, i Hope @Admin M@ Will fix It in the final version 😁
I don't think Matt does coding for Fractal... Although I might be wrong.
If IR's were solely responsible for the overwhelming vast majority of the sound...why are we all throwing 100's or 1000's of $$$ away? We could all just use the cheapest tone boxes available, throw the sounds through IR loaders, and call it a day, could we not?
But sound is not feel, and feel is the biggest (and hardest to achieve) part of modeling ;)
 
I may have missed it, but did anyone indicate whether FM3 would have new factory presets for Cygnus? I would really like to try them when they’re available. I didn’t spend much, if any, time with the Ares factory presets before getting the Austinbuddy live gold, so I’m kind of excited to try new ones if/when they drop.
They recently released them for Axe III, hopefully pretty soon.
 
A part of what Cygnus did was make the Bias Excursion algorithm more accurate. And since it's now more accurate, high values now sound better/more realistic. Cliff had the Bias Excursion values turned lower before because it sounded better, but they can get turned up to where they should be now. So the setting you're seeing is just that, a setting. But the reason it's higher is because the underlying algorithm was improved which allows it to sound good at that higher setting. Among other things that were improved under the hood too I'm sure.



In the beta for 3, some improved bias algorithms were added (an early slice of Cygnus). They then decided to leave those changes out for the full release, and wait for the full cygnus release to add them back in. So the updated settings that were first previewed in that beta are now in this beta.



Shortly before actually, the bias stuff was an early sliver of cygnus that was ported I believe, but later removed until all of cygnus was ready.



Not just because it's a beta firmware. Because it updates the default values of advanced properties in the amp block. They don't want to blindly overwrite your settings in case you went into the advanced pages and made changes yourself, so resetting an amp block is a way to get that amp back to the proper default values which is usually the easier place to start re-tweaking from.



Any old XLR to 1/4" will do.



Nope, each preset and channel are independant. Resetting the amp block just resets where all the knobs are (because the setting of several of the advanced knobs have changed). So because each preset and channel saves it's own copies of the settings, they each should be reset if they don't sound right.



It's using the updated drive block that came to the Axe just before cygnus (which is the updated amp modelling), and is the drive block algorithm used in the newest Axe FX III firmwares too. resetting is probably not necessary because there aren't new default values for advanced parameters in the drive blocks, but if one sounds weird in an existing preset a reset might help.



This is actually undoing the reset because you're resetting all the knob positions with the reset, then setting them all back where they started by pasteing the old settings back.



Note that the behaviour in your note varies depending if you're set to IDEAL or AUTHENTIC for your default amp controls.



That does defeat the process of resetting the block. The reset isn't magic, it just changes the knobs to their default values on all the different params screens on the amp block. Pasting back over would just "un-reset" them. The issue is advanced settings like bias excursion, transformer drive, etc have changed with cygnus and if you don't reset you're going to be using weird values on the advanced params page, similar to if you went diving deep into the advanced menus and started tweaking stuff in there randomly and without listening as you did it.

If your preset still sounds fine, you can keep using it. But the new defaults will work better with Cygnus. One idea is to copy the settings to another preset then reset one, and you can go back and forth and compare.



Yeah, Cygnus added and updated a handful of models which are detailed a little more in the Axe FX release notes.



This is a guess by some of those drives might actually have a low cut built into their input or output and that setting is set to match it. If a drive has a built in low cut it's easier to map it to the existing control (and allow you to tweak it) than to have a hidden, untweakable low cut inside the pedal. The amp Input EQ is the same way, it defaults to the configuration of the input network of the amp it models.



I think there was a bug recently (I can't remember if on FM3 or Axe FX III) where the cathode follow compression was accidentally getting set to 69% whenever the preset was loaded with that firmware, and then if any other changes were saved that updated value was being saved again too. You could roll back to 3.03b and make a new preset then open it in 4.00b to confirm, but I suspect what's happening is those presets for saved with that bad value back in 3.xb firmware that caused the bad value to be written, and you're only noticing it now.
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If IR's were solely responsible for the overwhelming vast majority of the sound...why are we all throwing 100's or 1000's of $$$ away? We could all just use the cheapest tone boxes available, throw the sounds through IR loaders, and call it a day, could we not?

I don't anyone is saying the amp isn't important, just that the speakers and cab are equally important. I don't think any speaker cabinet could make a bad amp sound good. In that case the the speakers could make a bad amp go from worse to less worse. But bad is bad. And I'm still trying to find the IR that will bring my ARES Shirley back to where it was on the Cygnus Shirley. Getting close!
 
Just noticed tonight that output 2 global eq gain isn't working, really didn't check frequencies.
 
A few thoughts on Amps, Speaker Cabs and IR's --

1) IR's seem to redefine amp models to a greater degree
than the amp models are able to redefine IR's.

2) Raw speaker cabs don't seem to redefine real amps in the same way -- or to the same degree.

3) IR's are more defined in tone than a raw speaker cab.

4) An IR is only one aspect of a speaker cab "captured" from a specific position.

5) An IR is more like a profile of a speaker cab, than a model.
An IR captures a speaker cab's sound from a particular position, or setting.

6) An IR also brings its own added color from the mic and signal chain.

7) An IR is simply a more particular sound,
more focused and more defined, than a raw speaker cabinet.

I think IR's play such a big part in defining a sound,
because an IR actually is a more defined, and more defining, sound
than a raw speaker cabinet itself.

Having the right speakers in the right cab
guarantees a certain sound in a physical speaker cab.

However, finding IR's of the same cab and speakers does no such thing.

We think IR's are more similar to speaker cabs than they actually are.

IR's are a much more focused, and much more narrowly defined, tone
than a raw speaker cab in a room.

I think that is why it surprises us that an IR
can be such a strong factor in defining a sound.

We equate IR's to speaker cabs in the wild.
But, that is a false equation.

A speaker cab is still open to interpretation,
while an IR is a more particular,
and more narrowly defined snapshot, or profile, of a speaker cab.
 
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A few thoughts on Amps, Speaker Cabs and IR's --

1) IR's seem to redefine amp models to a greater degree
than the amp models are able to redefine IR's.

2) Raw speaker cabs don't seem to redefine real amps in the same way -- or to the same degree.

3) IR's are more defined in tone than a raw speaker cab.

4) An IR is only one aspect of a speaker cab "captured" from a specific position.

5) An IR is more like a profile of a speaker cab, than a model.
An IR captures a speaker cab's sound from a particular position, or setting.

6) An IR also brings its own added colored from the mic and signal chain.

7) An IR is simply a more particular sound,
more focused and more defined, than a raw speaker cabinet.

I think IR's play such a big part in defining a sound,
because an IR actually is a more defined, and more defining, sound
than a raw speaker cabinet itself.

Having the right speakers in the right cab
guarantees a certain sound in a physical speaker cab.

However, finding IR's of the same cab and speakers does no such thing.

We think IR's are more similar to speaker cabs than they actually are.

IR's are a much more focused, and much more narrowly defined, tone
than a raw speaker cab in a room.

I think that is why it surprises us that an IR
can be such a strong factor in defining a sound.

We equate IR's to speaker cabs in the wild.
But, that is a false equation.

A speaker cab is still open to interpretation,
while an IR is a more particular,
and more narrowly defined snapshot, or profile, of a speaker cab.
Great explanation!

Everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler....

The term "IR" being equated to a speaker cab is "simpler than possible", but it is a frequent oversimplification.
 
A few thoughts on Amps, Speaker Cabs and IR's --

1) IR's seem to redefine amp models to a greater degree
than the amp models are able to redefine IR's.

2) Raw speaker cabs don't seem to redefine real amps in the same way -- or to the same degree.

3) IR's are more defined in tone than a raw speaker cab.

4) An IR is only one aspect of a speaker cab "captured" from a specific position.

5) An IR is more like a profile of a speaker cab, than a model.
An IR captures a speaker cab's sound from a particular position, or setting.

6) An IR also brings its own added color from the mic and signal chain.

7) An IR is simply a more particular sound,
more focused and more defined, than a raw speaker cabinet.

I think IR's play such a big part in defining a sound,
because an IR actually is a more defined, and more defining, sound
than a raw speaker cabinet itself.

Having the right speakers in the right cab
guarantees a certain sound in a physical speaker cab.

However, finding IR's of the same cab and speakers does no such thing.

We think IR's are more similar to speaker cabs than they actually are.

IR's are a much more focused, and much more narrowly defined, tone
than a raw speaker cab in a room.

I think that is why it surprises us that an IR
can be such a strong factor in defining a sound.

We equate IR's to speaker cabs in the wild.
But, that is a false equation.

A speaker cab is still open to interpretation,
while an IR is a more particular,
and more narrowly defined snapshot, or profile, of a speaker cab.
I find myself loading a amp in the amp block, then googling the amp for its natural counterpart then looking for it and trying all of the options that are available in the wiki, its been a fun week...
 
Quick update: I had zero issues from output 2 at rehearsal last night and I use the "Copy Output 1" option. I can't say whether the volume is relatively lower than Output 1 or lower than it should be, but it was fine. The guy running the mixer didn't have to make any adjustments. I normally turn my output up to about noon on my Axe Fx III, and I think I was around 1 or 2 o'clock using my FM3 with Output 2 last night.
 
When I had my HX Stomp, I bought 10 packs from York Audio. I’d go through and test every mic and speaker variation. Every. One. Same lick hundreds of times. My family luuuuved me for doing that.

So now I’m into the FM3 and Cygnus. That’s probably a good 2-3k irs to check out. Looks like I’m on the couch for a while....:)

Sean Meredith-Jones
don't forget to play some guitar in-between ;-)
 
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