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FM3-FC6: All in one Preset Controller Switch question

Discussion in 'FM3 Discussion' started by jimnov, May 17, 2019.

  1. #1 jimnov, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    jimnov

    jimnov
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    I'm planning my FM3-FC6 layout for an All-In-One Preset. [See image below]
    I plan to use Scenes 1, 2, 3 & 4 to switch between four Amp Scenes : Clean, Crunchy Clean, Rythm and High Gain.
    I plan to use Control Switch 1 to do a Solo Boost: [3-4 db Boost + EQ + Delay 2] for any Amp Scene
    I plan to use the FC-6 as a Pedal Board where I can turn On and Off different effects for any Amp Scene.
    My question is:
    Can Control Switch 1 turn Off Delay 1 and or Multi Delay 1 [If they were On] when I engage it?
    I wouldn't want Delay 1 or Multi Delay 1 and Delay 2 On at the same time for a Solo.
    Thx,
    jimnov

    FM3 FC6 All In One Preset.png
     
  2. Bakerman

    Bakerman
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    It could toggle Delay 1 input gain between 0 and 100%.

    Making it bypass the block would prevent scenes from changing the bypass state, but this might be a more flexible solution if you assign a scene controller to input gain. The block would be engaged whenever CS1 is off, and each scene could use a different input gain value.
     
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  3. #3 jimnov, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    jimnov

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    Thanks Bakerman!

    Are you talking about using a Modifier?
    I was hoping that it would not be Scene dependent, since my plan for Scenes is to only change my Amp.
    I was hoping to use Delay 1 and Multi-Delay 1 as an On/Off effect for any Amp Scene.
    Wondering if "Conditional Logic" could make it happen....
    CS #1:
    If Delay 1 is On > Turn it Off
    If Delay 1 is Off > leave it Off
    If Multi-Delay 1 is on > Turn it Off
    If Multi-Delay 1 is Off > Leave it Off
     
  4. Randalljax

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    Looks good what i would do is similar although i think i could do most of that with 3 or 4 switches

    Sw 1 toggles. Clean crunch
    Hold for tuner
    Sw2 toggle. Higain solo
    Sw3 boost Hold to load FX layout

    Sw 1 2 drive pedals HOLD tuner
    Sw 2 modulation
    Sw3 delays HOLD to return to scenes
     
  5. Bakerman

    Bakerman
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    Yes, modifiers are the only way to make a control switch do something.

    Normally scenes put every block into a certain state (bypass and channel). If you wanted effect states (on/off & channel) maintained when changing amp channels, it might make more sense to stay on one scene and have switches to select amp channels directly.
     
  6. #6 jimnov, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    jimnov

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    Yes, I'm familiar with Scenes. But they don't account for the "Pedal Boad" thing of turning Effects On/Off "as needed".
    I envision picking one Amp [Clean, Crunchy Clean, Rythm, High Gain] for a song and then turning Effects On/Off as needed.
    I was hoping the "Solo Boost" would boost whatever Amp I chose, add the effects of the Boost, EQ and Delay 2 and then turn Off Delay 1 [If On} or Multi-Delay [If On].
    Since you can turn multiple Effects On/Off, there are many combinations that can occur with the 4 Amp, All-In-One Preset.
    Maybe what I'm asking can't be done.
    But I'm asking if there is a way.
    Do you have a suggested scheme?
     
  7. Bakerman

    Bakerman
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    A control switch can mute delay input anytime by lowering input gain to 0. (It could bypass the block but then you wouldn't have bypass control via a normal bypass IA.)

    In post #5 I was pointing out that scenes affect all blocks. If you want effect states unaffected by amp channel selection, consider using amp channel switches rather than scene changes for that.
     
  8. jimnov

    jimnov
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    Thanks, I'll give it a try.
    I don't have a FM3 or FC-6 yet, so I'm only planning.
    I do have an AX-8 so I'll try to do a simulation.
     
  9. Moke

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    I would suggest making four presets, #1-Clean, #2-Crunchy Clean, #3-Rhythm, #4-High Gain.... Otherwise (almost) identical..

    Select the 'Preset/Amp' for the song, and then turn Effects On/Off as needed. This would allow you optimize each effect block settings, as needed, for the Preset (Amp) chosen. Some Drives, Wahs, Cabs, Choruses, etc... work better than others with certain Amps/Gain levels.

    Keep the same foot-switch setup in all four presets to avoid confusion, but the underlying parameters in some blocks may be different/optimized for that particular Amp/Gain level...

    You may even be open to setting up 8, clearly labeled, scenes for each preset that will cover all of your needs???
     
  10. #10 jimnov, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    jimnov

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    Thanks Moke!
    I'll explore the Preset configuration thing instead of the "All-In One" Scene 1A/2B/3C/4D Amp thing.
    8 scenes..... for each Preset.....
    That's a lot of combinations ...
    So then I would use a Scene as the "Solo Boost" instead of the "Control Switch 1"?

    If I were on the Clean Preset and I selected a Drive Pedal, and then I selected "Solo Boost", I would want the "Solo Boost" to leave the Drive engaged + Boost the db + EQ + Delay 2.
    Is that the expected result?
     
  11. Bakerman

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    A scene would force every block into whatever state was saved with the scene, so maybe/probably not. To have one switch change only the specific things you want for the boost function (level, EQ, mute Delay 1 if active, add Delay 2) use a control switch.
     
  12. ethomas1013

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    Personally, I would use a few different layouts rather than multiple hold functions. I have an AxeFX III and FC6 and plan to purchase an FM3 and use the FC6 with it. I am thinking that I will set up the FM3 buttons to call different layouts on the FC6. Maybe something like this:

    I'll set up two layout pages for FX, one layout for four presets and preset increment/decrement switches, another layout for scenes, and another for the looper.

    FM3 button 1 - toggle to choose layouts for FX 1 or FX2
    FM3 button 2 - click for the presets, hold for the looper page
    FM3 button 3 - Tap/Tuner

    With the toggle on FM3 button 1, I will have quick access to 12 effects (I plan to put the solo boost on my FX1 page). On my FX pages, I do have some hold functions assigned, but they always activate different versions (channels) of the same effect. I never have hold functions configured to turn on/off different effects. For example, having one switch that turns on/off the chorus and a hold function that turns on/off the flanger is not the way I would do it. I'd rather use a second layout page for access to more FX without holding to toggle different ones on/off.

    Another nice thing for you to look into is layout link. For example, I have it set so that when I choose a preset it automatically switches to the scenes layout page. I use a lot of song specific presets and scenes for different parts of the song, and it sounds like you will not do it that way, but I'm sure you could come up with some other use for that function to automatically take you to a specific page after choosing a specific function.

    When I first started setting up my layouts, I thought I would get lost when using it. That's not the case at all. I find it so much nicer than what I was doing using hold functions and X/Y switching on the AX8.

    Another thing to consider, the programmers may add functionality for clicking/holding switches 1&2 or switches 2&3 simultaneously on the FM 3. I know it was requested in a thread somewhere that the FAS programmer was actively participating in, so until we see the specs for the FM3 we don't know all of the options available to us.

    So many possibilities. FAS has done a nice job of making the FC configurable for so many different workflows and personal preferences.
     
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  13. jimnov

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    Ethomas, thanks for the advice.
    I didn't know that you can have "2" different pages of Effects and toggle between them with one button.
    I need to check out some FC-6 videos and rethink my layout plan.
     
  14. #14 zionplayer, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    zionplayer

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    Quick question - if the only change is to amp, why change scene or preset at all? Could you just use a switch to select amp channels? Then all effects state remain until specifically changed. I do use a null filter for my lead boost so I don’t know about sharing modifiers for each amp channel.

    EDIT: Just caught the last part of Bakerman's response saying the above... now I'm just redundant...sorry.
     
  15. DLC86

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    I was thinking to do the same, FM3 switches to select layouts on the FC6 but..
    I don't know if it will be possible to do so, it depends on how the 3 switches of the FM3 will be implemented.
    If they're treated as separate devices there's currently no way on the axe fx to make a switch on the first FC change layout on the second FC (unless the FC #2 is set to mirror FC #1, but that's kinda pointless with FM3+FC6).
    The only way is using the layout link function but then you won't have any indication on the scribble strip unless you make the switch change to the same layout on the FM3 itself, but that's again pointless.

    I'm curious to see how the switch management will be implemented, the best way imho would be to make FM3 and the first connected FC behave like a single device, i.e. FM3 switches the first 3 switches of a layout and FC6 switches will be #4 to #9.
     
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  16. ethomas1013

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    Interesting point. It would certainly be limiting if the FM3 is treated as the first controller and the FC6 as a second controller. The way you suggest with the FC switches being #4-9 doesn't work for the FC12 does it since there would have to be switches #13-15 for that scenario? I guess we'll have to wait to see how the switch management is implemented.
     
  17. ethomas1013

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    You can have 8 layout pages and a master layout page configured however you what. But as @DLC86 said, we'll have to wait to see how the FM3 switches integrate with the FC6 to see if what I suggested will work.
     
  18. DLC86

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    Yep, using an FC12 would need a layout of 15 switches in that case.
    Maybe all we need is a "select on FC#x" function on the layout switches.
     
  19. #19 ethomas1013, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    ethomas1013

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    Maybe this is a good time to ask @Greg Girardin how the FC6/12 will integrate with the FM3 in light of the comments above. Will the FM3 switches be able to select different layouts for a connect FC6/12? How are the three on-board switches integrated with a connected FC?
     
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  20. Moke

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    Not exactly.. Scenes are predetermined on/off states, and channels of the available blocks within the preset. You could have a solo 'scene' that would enable, and select the channel of the Drive, solo boost, EQ, and Delay, with a single button. It's more powerful, but also more restrictive. Once you setup and name the 8 scenes. That is exactly what each scene starts out as. Of course, you are still free to switch any effect on or off within the scene, once selected. There is also a global 'Scene Revert' setting that allows blocks that are manually switched on or off in a particular scene, to remember their 'new' state when switched back to that scene... probably not useful for your needs??

    You can also do a combination of scenes and control switches. Any parameter, or group of parameters attached to each control switch will ignore scene changes. But control switches can not change block channels......

    If you need complete, random access to 2 different Drives, 4 different Delays, 2 different Modulations, and 2 different Reverbs, then scenes are not likely for you.

    However, having a different preset for each Amp type may still be a good way to go. Dial in one preset with all of your effect block variations, then copy that to a few other slots. Change the Amp and Cab blocks and re-name each of them. Now you are free to optimize each of the effect block variations for that new Amp/Cab combo (if needed?) Just my $0.02
     
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