Flat-Response (Reference) Pickups?

prometh

prometh

Power User
Do these exist? They'd be great for making a Strat sound like a Les Paul and vice versa. The Variax guitar doesn't come close because it relies on a piezo and doesn't pick up the same intensity/intimacy/feel.

Then along with amp tone matching, we could have pickup matching.
 
I don't know of "reference" pickups per se, but Lace makes the alumitone pickups, which I use, and they are the most open pickups I've ever used. I went to these because I was looking for a pickup that would be extremely malleable with the axe fx. I have the standard humbuckers in both the bridge and the neck position + a push/pull pot to coil tap them. I have them in 2 different guitars and they're extremely flexible. By far my favorite pickups and they will be used in every single guitar I own going forward.
 
Sidivan said:
I don't know of "reference" pickups per se, but Lace makes the alumitone pickups, which I use, and they are the most open pickups I've ever used. I went to these because I was looking for a pickup that would be extremely malleable with the axe fx.
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I've looked at these a few times over the years and you've peaked my interest again. Sidivan, what is it about the Alumitones that you find makes them malleable with the Axe-FX?

Terry.
 
Tone Seeker said:
I've looked at these a few times over the years and you've peaked my interest again. Sidivan, what is it about the Alumitones that you find makes them malleable with the Axe-FX?

Terry.
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They sound completely uncompressed and open. Unlike some of the traditional humbuckers I've used, which feel pre-eq'd to be warmer (Gibson stock pickups, for instance). With a wider frequency response, it's easier to carve out the unwanted frequencies to enhance the wanted ones. If I want a warmer tone, roll off some highs. If i want it brighter, roll off the lows. More compressed? Add a compressor in the box. Every tone tool under the sun is in the box, so why would I want to feed it a pre-shaped signal?

The other advantage is the models themselves actually sound different from eachother. I'm assuming this is because I'm providing the entire spectrum for the models to shape, which brings out the voicing of each amp.

In a nutshell, when I plug into a clean amp, I hear strings vibrating in wood. The pickups are almost completely transparent.

Edit: I should also say that it's not all rainbows and butterflies. When I first got them, I thought "oh crap, this was a huge mistake" because all of my patches sounded totally different. It didn't take too long to dial things in though. I'm never going back to standard humbuckers.
 
Sidivan said:
They sound completely uncompressed and open. Unlike some of the traditional humbuckers I've used, which feel pre-eq'd to be warmer (Gibson stock pickups, for instance). With a wider frequency response, it's easier to carve out the unwanted frequencies to enhance the wanted ones. If I want a warmer tone, roll off some highs. If i want it brighter, roll off the lows. More compressed? Add a compressor in the box. Every tone tool under the sun is in the box, so why would I want to feed it a pre-shaped signal?

The other advantage is the models themselves actually sound different from eachother. I'm assuming this is because I'm providing the entire spectrum for the models to shape, which brings out the voicing of each amp.
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Wow. It really does sound like these might get into the ballpark the OP was looking for.

Sidivan said:
In a nutshell, when I plug into a clean amp, I hear strings vibrating in wood. The pickups are almost completely transparent.
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I have two all mahogany guitars which are very warm. One in particular is very resonant, and almost sounds like an acoustic guitar unplugged. It sounds like it might be a good candidate for Alumitones, based on your comment above.

BTW, have you tried Tone Matching to an acoustic guitar? You might achieve some very interesting results!

Terry.
 
Tone Seeker said:
Wow. It really does sound like these might get into the ballpark the OP was looking for.



I have two all mahogany guitars which are very warm. One in particular is very resonant, and almost sounds like an acoustic guitar unplugged. It sounds like it might be a good candidate for Alumitones, based on your comment above.

BTW, have you tried Tone Matching to an acoustic guitar? You might achieve some very interesting results!

Terry.
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I haven't done any tone matching at all yet. I'm still playing with the new amp models! I have 2 guitars currently with the same standard alumitone humbuckers. Both are mahogany bodies with flame maple tops. One is a quarter-sawn maple neck + rosewood fingerboard, the other mahogany neck + ebony fingerboard; both are neck-thru. They sound similar enough where I use one as a backup to the other with the same patches. I'll whip together a recording of all 6 positions (bridge, middle, neck and then again with coil tap) with everything bypassed so you can hear them.

Edit: Additional information, I have a solid mahogany Hamer double cutaway that is the heaviest and most resonant guitar I own. When I hit a chord I can feel the thing vibrate in my chest. I haven't put alumitones in this yet because I absolutely love the clean tone of it already, but I'm not crazy about it with a lot of gain. Don't have a clue what pickups are in it as they have nickel covers without any markings. I don't think I need a 3rd guitar with alumitones either.
 
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I'll take a shot in the dark here but what about Piezo hex pickups? Or do they not qualify because they have or need electronics in order for them to work.
 
No such thing exists. Pickups are not so much about frequency response, but harmonic content. The best position to capture every harmonic is at or very close to the bridge. But to model a pickup from that tone (regardless of type) you need to change the harmonic content separately for each string, based on it's fret position. So you need hexaphonic processing with dynamic filtering separately for each string.

All of that said, I think tone matching is possibliy one of the better ways to fake different pickup type, but I doubt whether it will fool many. It will be a static tone rather than what we're used to hearing at different fret positions.
 
A few years ago I read about Flaxwood making a guitar which was sonically neutral (or dead depending on your point of view).
 
Q-Tuners are pretty flat and wide. I love them on basses but haven't tried the guitar ones.


Q-tuner – World's first neodymium guitar and bass pickups

froggy-bass-01.jpg


They were out of production for awhile...
 
back in the 80's they had Ultrasonic "reference series" pickups... supposed to be flat. I uploaded a video a few years back on youtube of Lab Systems, and they go over it, using an eq and those pickups to "tone clone" as they called it.
 
GM Arts said:
No such thing exists. Pickups are not so much about frequency response, but harmonic content. The best position to capture every harmonic is at or very close to the bridge. But to model a pickup from that tone (regardless of type) you need to change the harmonic content separately for each string, based on it's fret position. So you need hexaphonic processing with dynamic filtering separately for each string.

All of that said, I think tone matching is possibliy one of the better ways to fake different pickup type, but I doubt whether it will fool many. It will be a static tone rather than what we're used to hearing at different fret positions.
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what GM said here. Also, you'd HATE the sound of the guitar if it was FRFR. The amount of high frequencies that actually get bled to ground is actually a blessing. Try putting in a large vol pot (eg 2K) or pressing your head to your instrument and plucking a string. OUCH.

Careful what you wish for.
 
A flat response pickup doesn't exist. All pickups have their strengths and weaknesses, be they magnetic, piezo, or optical. A flat pickup would have to give the same sound as something like a TC30 mic aimed at the strings.
 
Ultrasonic Pickups were used by Tom Anderson and Zion back in the day, they were supposed to be as flat and uncolored as you could get a guitar pickup. I don't believe they are made any more.
 
I may have to investigate some Ultrasonic pickups, then. Maybe Bill Lawrence (wildepickups.com) will still make them if requested.

I'm having an issue with my tone. I love my vintage LP tone and I love my metal tone... but I need them both at the same time! Metal cuts and grinds, but vintage fills and woofs. I keep switching back and forth.

I'm thinking that the solution may be to tone match both guitars and play with flat response pickups. That'd need two Axe Fx II's though... so it'd all have to wait anyway. Tone matching my metal guitar to sound vintage sounds like shit.
 
Bill Lawrence passed away last year, IIRC. So he won't be making any more pickups.
 
trying to get an LP to sound like a Strat or vice versa is tough to do. we've all been there. I could be wrong, but came to the assumption that it's the different scale lengths that make the biggest impact on the sound and feel. something about that 25.5 scale makes the notes sound clearer on chords. the 24.75 scale makes single note lines sound fatter.
 
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