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"Fizz is Good"

pjrake

Inspired
I'm playing preset #170 - Thick & Chunky and I hear this fizz when palm muting the E string. I've noticed it in other amps as well (Splawn). Just wondering if with the new MIMIC technology that the actual amps actually sound like that, or is it something wrong on my end? When I play along to recorded track you can't hear it and the preset actually sounds really good, but when noodling alone it gets to me.

Just wondering if there's something I need to tweak or is it just me.

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

pjrake

Inspired
Will try that. It's scaring me a bit 'cause now I'm thinking the update was not done right. I initially used Fractal Bot, the read it's only used for firmwares, so I used Axe-Manage, but noticed some people having trouble with it. Did a system reset, re-install v10, then uploaded the banks using MIDI-Ox, but maybe something still is not right.

Just wondering if the preset for you guys you hear the same thing? If not, then it's something wrong on my end. I didn't do anything to the preset, did not tweak or anything.
 

eda123

Inspired
I notice it too.

More on some models than others. I reset EVERYTHING to factory and still, a real searing type of sound on amps with gain dialed in.

Ive owned a few of the exact models im trying, and the originals didnt have this.

But- some models dont have this and sound great, and im using those now. But my go-to amps (and models of them) of previous years are not all usable anymore.
 

deathsilver

Inspired
I'm playing preset #170 - Thick & Chunky and I hear this fizz when palm muting the E string. I've noticed it in other amps as well (Splawn). Just wondering if with the new MIMIC technology that the actual amps actually sound like that, or is it something wrong on my end? When I play along to recorded track you can't hear it and the preset actually sounds really good, but when noodling alone it gets to me.

Just wondering if there's something I need to tweak or is it just me.

Appreciate your thoughts!

I get this too, with the Bassguy presets as well...
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I'm playing preset #170 - Thick & Chunky and I hear this fizz when palm muting the E string. I've noticed it in other amps as well (Splawn). Just wondering if with the new MIMIC technology that the actual amps actually sound like that, or is it something wrong on my end? When I play along to recorded track you can't hear it and the preset actually sounds really good, but when noodling alone it gets to me.

Just wondering if there's something I need to tweak or is it just me.

Appreciate your thoughts!

That knarly trash is your friend :) That's what makes a preset cut a mix. Without it, you will forever EQ to make the guitars sit in the mix.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
That knarly trash is your friend :) That's what makes a preset cut a mix. Without it, you will forever EQ to make the guitars sit in the mix.
What he said. Listen to some isolated tracks sometime.

That fizz is desirable. Almost all high gain amps use a lot of feedback on the last triode stage to make it as "hard" as possible. This is typically done by using no cathode cap or a small cathode cap. You never see big cathode caps on the last stage of a high-gain amp. This gives lots of negative feedback and makes it clip harder. Another technique is to use negative feedback to the grid. This is done in 5150-based designs which makes the stage clip even harder. The last stage of a 5150 basically looks like a diode clipper.

The harder the clipping the more overtones that are created and the better the tone cuts. Without those overtones your sound is lost in the mix. Amp designers know what they are doing. Trust them.
 

clarky

Axe-Master
I'm pretty sensitive and fussy about 'fizz'...
but I'm not hearing it in a harsh / strong or any bad way in that clip
sounds normal to my ears..

the last FW that [to my ears at least] had a strong and not so nice fizz was 6.0
I wrestled with it for weeks and really struggled to get it out..
that said, the "crunchers" loved 6.0, it was just us "hi-gainers" that had a tough time
from 6.01 on I've found it to be fizz [at least the type I was struggling with] free..

just my opinion though...

that said... screw what I think..
YOUR tone MUST be something that YOU adore..
so if you're not so happy with the "very-hi's", go to the cab block and reduce the hi-cut down to about 7500
personally, I'd advise not dropping it much below 7000 [if you feel the need to] because you'll kill your definition and reduce your tone to a woolly mush..
if you're still struggling, reduce the presence in the amp
if you're still struggling, I'd suspect that your choice of cab may not be the best one
some cabs emphasise the highs is a serious way.. but this will be superb on the crunchy and clean tones..
other cabs are generally a little darker which makes them great for hi-gainers..
try the 4x12 Ultra
or my personal fave, FAS's own 4x12 25W [which I find to be very neutral with respect to the extreme highs]
 

pjrake

Inspired
Disclaimer: Long post ahead.

First I thank all of you for your responses. Thanks to Cliff for chiming in as well (I feel like a celebrity replied to one of my fan emails!).

After exhaustively reading through threads upon threads regarding "fizz" and "sizzle" I've come across some really good quotes that has helped me ease my worry:

"Outside of a mix context...sizzle can be a bit annoying but in a mix it cuts like mad."

"Randy Rhoads... guitar sounds like a friggin buzz saw, but in the mix it is awesome."

"Fizz is good."

I've been playing Rectos tube amps for many years, but always loud and in a band context. Always "heard" something there, but my ears have been so "trained" to hear that amp in the overall mix that I never paid any mind to it. Since my amps always been in the rehearsal room, at home I've always had the "modelers" (ie, Line6 POD, Toneport, Cube mini amp, etc). So at home I've never that the "problem" of fizz (which I'm quickly learning it's not a problem at all).

It wasn't until I found this post from Cliff that I've began to "see the light":

"The whole impetus for V10 was actually due to the Rectos. I hooked up my Dual Recto one day and was A/B'ing to the Axe-Fx. The real amp had this fizz and sizzle on the notes whereas the Axe-Fx did not. If you play a single note you can hear a crackling noise on the decay, almost like frying bacon or something. The Ax-Fx was more smooth fuzz on the decay. I sat there wondering why the Axe-Fx lacked this sizzle..."

So I think with this new point of view in mind, I will continue tweaking and not worry so much in trying to get a "polished, well-behaved sound" (I read that from one of Cliff's post also). I will also post a clip of my tone as it sits in a mix my band recently recorded (they're scratch tracks and you really can't hear the guitars that well, but the bass and drums are there so it should give me an idea on how the guitar sits in the mix). Let me know what you guys think of it and if it cuts through nicely.

Again, thanks all for your comments and suggestions. Much appreciated \m/ \m/

-PJ

PS: I haven't been able to rehearse with the band with v10 yet, probably another reason why I really shouldn't worry so much about it :)
 

clarky

Axe-Master
pj - there are a few things worthy of note here...

when you hear things at higher volumes [gig / rehearsal] you'll perceive the highs as being stronger so you'll naturally tame them some
so the resultant tone will be smoother but still bright
the Axe though can simulate 'high volume' tones at low volumes.. but because your rig at home isn't knocking walls down you will perceive it a little differently
and this is the reason that I have two banks of presets where the second bank is a copy of the first but is dialled in for high volume usage..
in a sense.. this is no different to your previous 'big rig' for live and 'modeller' for home practice..
well... you have an Axe... so why not create both 'usage types' in the Axe..

another point is that when you hear mixes on CD's etc, you're never hearing the guitars raw and naked..
they're in the mix, they've been EQ'd on the mixing desk, and the whole mix has had all kinds of compression and limiting etc etc thrown at it to make it sound all polished and pretty..

so...
home practice...
just dial in whatever works best with your home monitoring / cans / etc
make the presets all glossy, fat, wet etc.. whatever makes you feel great..

live..
copy these presets up to the next bank and try them through your live backline / monitoring up at gig volume..
and all the things that need taming should be pretty obvious...
 
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