First Use Live

Y

youngmic

Inspired
So, I used my II in a live setting for the first time this evening. I've had it for quite a while. I've been using my Ultra live and have had the II in my small studio at home. I certainly didn't intend to wait this long but frankly found it difficult to dial in the tones I had become comfortable with on the Ultra. This was and still is puzzling. I played the II when it first came out and decided then and there that I had to have it.

The short of it though is that I still haven't figured out how to get to what I have on the Ultra. My sound guy stopped me afterwards and noted that my tone was much thinner than before and wondered what I had changed. The interesting thing is that this is exactly what I've been wrestling with. My Ultra patches do seem to be "thicker" generally. They were based on the Top Boost, Marsha, Brown, ODS-100, Eggie, and Double Verb models, using the 4X12 25W w/either a 57 or 121 or the EVM12L.

I know there are 100's of variables here and this is not a rant or a complaint. I've never been much of a gear head. I've said in several previous posts that I basically dialed in a TOL 100 and used it for 10 years. But I confess I am kind of confused. I know that there's better tone in the II than in the Ultra. I've experienced it. And there is definitely an improvement in "organic" feel. There are many, many improvements. It's just that I can't seem to figure out how to get to where I was on the Ultra and am actually contemplating going back.

Not something I really want to do.

I'm also not sure what the point of this post is. I guess what would be great is if there were indeed a few who were Axe Fx II "sound designers" if you will. I would certainly consider hiring one to work with me for a few hours to get me where I want to be on this great piece of gear.
 
This will probably seem a bit cheap, but is there any chance you could try tone matching? If you can get a recording of your desired tone from the Ultra, play it through the Axe II and have it work out the differences? It might not be as perfect but I'm fairly confident it will get you on your way at least.
 
Are you going FRFR/direct to FOH? If so, I highly recommend trying the suggestions made by Scott P. Specifically, using a stereo cab block with a mix of Near Field and Far Field IR's... then, adjusting the speaker resonance curve (in the AMP block) to match the settings he suggested in that popular thread from a few days ago (Unleashing the Monster, I think is the title).

I don't claim to fully understand the what's and why's of these settings, but, in a non-linear, right-brain sort of way, it makes sense to me. When we play through a traditional amp and cab, we (usually) have it on the floor and stand some distance away from it... we hear the cab speakers PLUS whatever physics is going on between the speakers and the air that exists between the cab and our ears (some distance away).

The NF/FF combo seems to accomplish this.

Then, the speaker resonance settings give the AMP the 'correct information' with which to interact with the CAB in a musical way (apparently, based on calculations made by Jay Mitchell, who is basically a scientist).

It's like taking the sound we know and love (from standing near an amp, cranking it up, and playing) and 'transferring' that whole/complete sound into the PA system for all to hear.

These techniques give me exactly what you say you were missing from your live sound... weight, girth, body, power... all while maintaining smoothness and listenability at high volume.

If you haven't tried that stuff out, give it a whirl... it changed everything for me (I play almost exclusively live and therefore, loud). If you have and didn't like it... then, sorry for the long winded post.
 
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if you're tone is a little thinner, have you tried turning up the depth or going to the EQ page of the amp and boosting the lowest 3 bands by 3dB or 4dB
 
Thanks guys. Yes, I've tried both. But I'll be taking another crack at it tonight. Frankly, graphic EQ scares me for an interesting reason. I find that I am endlessly questioning the tone and continue to tweak. It always sounds out of balance to me. Probably all in my head. And I actually have Scott's suggestions dialed in and am using the NF/FF mix.

There really is no way to do this efficiently on a forum is there? How can words effectively describe tone and feel when we don't even know for sure that we're using the words in the same way. But since deciding to commit to migrating to the II, I've been bent on dialing it in for live use for the last three weeks. I finally made the jump last night and realized that I still have a lot of work to do. Not sure if it's just my inexperience with sound engineering in general, the abundance of options on the Axe Fx, or just fatigue, but I felt like I just needed to voice my struggles here.

Keep the suggestions coming though. All thoughts are very much appreciated!

And if any of you true tone tweaking, sound engineering, amp genius gurus are in the LA area and available to spend a few hours with me, let me know!!
 
If I were to try to Tone Match the Ultra, would I just take the direct signal with no speaker? Cliff's tutorial doesn't seem to consider that scenario.
 
also try making copies of all your presets

keep one bank as your main ones that are [for now] sacred
and try messing with the copies at volume [rehearsal]
 
I went through this transition and I didn't sell my ultra until I was positive that I could match my presets in the AxeFXII. It was a struggle but I did manage to replicate key presets. I'm 90% sure you can do as good or better than your Ultra on the AxeFXII. The trouble is that your ear is so tuned to the Ultra that you'd really need to have someone repeatedly A/B the Ultra with the II. A/B of recordings get you pretty close but playing them back to back with various phrases repeatedly until your satisfied is what's required.

I don't know that there will be any silver bullets either. I had a few. Early on I had trouble with mild gain amps and it turned out that the speaker settings in the amp block (particularly the high freq and resonance) made a huge difference. However, the next firmware removed those settings and yet another brought them back but not with the exact same behavior. Thankfully I've learned how to correlate what I'm hearing to many of the settings so that my editing frustration is minimized.

I guess my best advice, aside from rigorous A/B matching (down to the block level if necessary) your two Axes is to specifically set out to understand the impacts of as many parameters as possible on the sound. Concentrate on the interaction among the major ones first:

Drive(Drive, EQ) > Amp(Drive, Master Volume, Speaker, Definition, Dynamics, XFormer Match) > Cab(Cab, Mic, Motor Drive, Proximity)

When matching my Ultra, I didn't stray much from these. Messing with Graphic EQ and Parametric EQ may not be necessary at all. The cabs are not as bass heavy as the Ultra so maybe you'll need eq to balance that but otherwise, try to stick to the "eq" available in the standard blocks. I find it all to easy to mess with the EQ and think I've got something only to find that it sounds terrible through multiple monitor types.

PS Tone Match as an extreme last resort. And if you A/B, connect the ultra via the send return and assign foot controllers to mute one or the other so that you can hear the two as close together as possible.
 
Do you hear your desired tone through a cab or FRFR? If its through a cab, you would need to mic up the cab and record that tone to a computer, then play that recording to the TMA block in your preset.

If the tone you hear comes right out of the axe (meaning you could plug in your headphones/FRFR and hear that same glorious tone) then yes you can just take the direct signal. Im not sure how you would link your Ultra directly to the II for it to sample guitar audio though. I would just be going DI into a computer, recording some guitar playing and then connect the II via USB to the computer and have it sample the recording. Connecting it via USB is shown in the stickied video tutorial :)
 
Just finished a two-day event where I played 6 sets. I spent a little time tweaking over the two days and made a lot of progress. Nothing huge. Played with cabs and mics, basic amp tone controls, drive and master, etc. The stage was large so I also had the room to set up both of my EAW's and run stereo (stage only though, not stereo through the house). I really enjoyed the II. I'm not quite there yet, but dialing in tones in a live or rehearsal setting is really the only way you're going to get tones you're happy with in that setting. (Many have said this here, including Clarky in this thread.) I found new enjoyment in the Plexi model. It really is uncanny.

There's a suggestion in the wiki to try the top boost model with an fet boost. Did that. Yum. Really, really like the result.

Not quite happy with my mid gain fender tones yet. Still looking for the TOL 100 channel 2 vibe. Cliff just posted again to look at tone matching for amps that may not be specifically modeled. I'll have to try that. Also not quite there with lead tones that hit the mark to my taste. But I'm sure I'll get there.

Oh, and running stereo is very cool. First time I've actually played live with stereo monitors. I love the w/d/w effect given by the breadth of stereo delays and reverb while the core tone is squarely in the middle. Really increased my enjoyment.

All in all, it was a very gratifying experience. I'm very pleased with this piece of gear.

On an amusing side note, I was sitting with another player listening to yet another player warm up. We could see his top boost but couldn't see his pedal board. He was using a delay that sounded really good. My comment to my friend: "50 bucks it's a Strymon." He nodded. "Has to be." So we went up to check it out. POD XT Live. OK then. I'll leave it to you to find your own moral to that story.
 
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