First Use At Church

RoshRoslin said:
I play guitar and drums regularly at different churches in LA. Usually using the AX8 when I'm playing guitar.

My recommendation: learn how to use and work the mixing board at your church. A little knowledge goes a long way so you can just do things yourself and get yourself mixed well in case the soundman is a bonehead.

One church I play at (on drums) uses ableton and the soundman used to send the click back to me (on In ears) from the Soundboard because that's where the laptop was. I had too many instances where the click would drop out or the level would be wildly different between tracks and songs. Pretty much heart attack moments when I had to play along to a backing track without hearing the click. After awhile I just fought to be able to control the mix from the stage (via iPad) etc and it hasn't been a problem since and all the musicians and worship leader are much much happier.

Moral of the story: nobody is a mind reader and it's probably better to just do things yourself to reduce any variables about your performance.

The AX8 rules. Perfect church rig!
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I've thought about grabbing the music ministers ipad and adjusting the levels for the board myself (at least my channel). It's right there about 6 feet from me but I think he keeps a sniper trained on it and if anyone touches it....BOOM.
 
philipacamaniac said:
From like 15-20 years ago...
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I play at church at visit many others and majority of the time the electrics (along with Ableton/Synth/Mainstage) are buried in the mix.

Doesn't help when the sound guys mixing are the same guys from 15-20 years ago and they have never adapted to the newer songs and what instruments are carrying the song.

It's amazing at how quickly a modern song can sound daggy and old fashioned simply because the wrong instruments are pushed to the front of the mix whilst others are buried.
 
dbun said:
Doesn't help when the sound guys mixing are the same guys from 15-20 years ago and they have never adapted to the newer songs and what instruments are carrying the song.
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That's precisely the problem. Most times, the sound guys have never heard these songs outside of a church service. They don't listen to the original recordings and hear what the mix should be like. It didn't take long for ours to understand once they did. There's no excuse otherwise for not turning the guitars up to where they should be if you're going direct and you're using IEMs.
 
I'm pretty sure ours don't listen to the original recordings, heck they can't even seem to remember when I have a solo and that's after we went through rehearsal (last time I played with the band). I'm still holding out that one day it will get better, I'll just keep on doing my part in the mean time.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
So I turn my guitar volume off and continue playing with the band and ask him "How does that sound?". His reply: "Loud and clear, sounds awesome!" Really???
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Haha, I've done the exact same thing lol! However, my story ended with me stopping my play and changing the fader on my own ;) #Fixed #SameOldStory

IME you need a "youthful" or "willing to be youthful" sound engineer who understands balancing a Hillsong United concert with an Eagles concert. Vocals should be prominent, but the guitars/bass/drums should cut through also if the tune calls for it. We run everything baselined at 90DB (or lower) for FOH and it sounds pretty good. The fear of "losing church patrons" shouldn't be a fear tactic in modern healthy places of worship IMO.

aftrshok99 said:
AX8 all the way and it sounded great when I was rehearsing, even with my in-ears it sounded great.
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To the OP, glad your experience was awesome! Feel free to check out some ambient presets I built a while back here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/various-ambient-presets.112541/ | I will be updating them to the Q7+ once I get some time.... We have a 6-week old in our house so it is fairly busy at my pad.
 
I've been thinking about an AX8 for a while now, but my fear about playing air guitar does hold me back.

As church players, we all understand it's not about us, but it's frustrating when all your effort to learn a song is literally not heard by anyone outside your IEMs. If you're not even adding to the music, you can't help but question why you even do it.

I used to play a PODX3 Live, but I switched to amps a few years ago due to the inconsistent sound issues. With an amp on stage, I get the feel and sound of the amp behind me, and I know they can't completely turn me down. I keep the amp at relatively low volume as to not beam or overpower anything, but I am the only noise on an otherwise silent stage.

My current setup is EB VP Jr > MXR Custom Comp Deluxe > Dunlop Crybaby Mini > TimeLine > H9 into a Mesa MkV:25 or Splawn Quick Rod 50w controlled by a Boss ES-5.

I like the idea of having everything in one reliable unit, and I usually end up leaving the whole rig at church because we practice Wednesday nights so it's not really feasible loading in/out twice a week.

I do have a question for the AX8 guys...how is the dynamic range compared to a live amp. Like say an AC30, edge of break-up? I used to use the AC30 in the POD, and I never had a lot of dynamic range. I didn't really know what I was missing until I bought an AC30 and started playing it at church, before switching to the V:25 which is also dynamic. I can play soft for clean or dig in for a lot more volume and grit. That's something I worry about going back to a modeling box because the PODX3 was terrible in that regard.
 
Bones43x said:
I do have a question for the AX8 guys...how is the dynamic range compared to a live amp. Like say an AC30, edge of break-up?
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Exactly the same. I too used to play an AC15 and Hayseed 30 (AC30 clone) and the Axe Fx was the first modeler I used that accurately replicated both the feel and tone of the amp.

Through my IEMs I hear the exact same tone as I did with my old amps and the feel is the same too. We have isolation boxes backstage, so I was used to playing with no "interaction" from the amp - I think this is the biggest thing that people think is missing, but in reality they aren't comparing the same thing.

I know what you mean about the constant load-in and load-outs and the AX8 has completely changed how easy it is to carry my rig around.
Setting everything up at home to practice and then carting it all in during the week for rehearsal, then back home again, then back to church on a Sunday was getting tiring - I can now carry my whole rig with both hands - guitar in one hand, AX8 in the other.

The other aspect is that my tone has never been this good - yes I had good pedals and great amps - but unless it is mic'd up perfectly what gets to FOH may not be your best tone. The AX8 allows me to send the tone as I want it to sound direct to FOH.
 
Bones43x said:
...how is the dynamic range compared to a live amp. Like say an AC30, edge of break-up?
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*chuckle* You're in for a treat. Straight out of the box, dynamic range is identical to the real deal. If you're not afraid of some deep tweaking, you can actually get more dynamic range.
 
Man, you guys are making this hard for me...I was really set on buying a new 7-string (I recently sold mine), but I guess if I go the AX8 route I would have quite a bit to sell. My H9 Max is basically a $600 reverb...I don't use it for much else.
 
Bones43x said:
As church players, we all understand it's not about us, but it's frustrating when all your effort to learn a song is literally not heard by anyone outside your IEMs. If you're not even adding to the music, you can't help but question why you even do it.
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This is how I feel 100%, it's just human nature to ask that very question. My time is just as valuable as anyone else's on the team and I take my practice time to learn songs very seriously. It takes away from my family time and from other things I might need to be doing, so I guess that's where the frustration comes from when I'm not heard.

Man you can't go wrong IMO getting the Ax8, best thing I ever did.
 
My church has amps in a soundproof closet back stage. A Vox, and a Fender Deluxe. I liked the Fender, but it's sounded awful in my in-ears. The worship director offered to play my guitar so I could go backstage and tweak the amp (nice guy!), and the amp sounded great. I noticed the microphone was dead center of the amp, but the speaker was off to one side, it was mic'ing the wood next to the speaker! I moved the mic, and that was better. The next time, I brought my red-box for direct, and that was infinitely better.
Now I bring my AX8, and the sound is always spot on.
However, I have no idea if they can hear it out front.
 
Im lucky to play at a church where the mix is often pretty close to the recording. About 75% of our sound guys are really good.
The thing that gets me is that we use loops a lot! One time I quite playing to adjust my in ears and noticed the lead guitar part I was playing was in the loop!!! It was hard to enjoy playing when the part was already pre recorded.
 
@lwknives The last church I played at we used loops a lot and I did find a few times during rehearsal that the parts I was playing were playing in the loop. At least all I had to do was tell the leader and he'd walk back to the drummer, grab the ipad and take it out of the loop. I liked playing at that church, they mixed it correctly, although there were occasions where I felt like I was to loud in the mix and melting the faces off the first 5 rows but that was how they wanted it. Now if I could find the balance between that church and my current one, then I'd be just right...LOL
 
Been playing the worship band gig for years. Same issues....usually, it's based upon "preferences" of leadership of mix hierarchy. Vox on top, kit/bass 2nd..etc. I moved on 2 years ago from a local COG fellowship due to the "air guitar" syndrome. Why play if it's just going to be comp'd at 10:1, mid scooped out, and potted -12dB down? Players were all on IEM's and click trax..our mix was awesome, but nothing close in the FOH. Been back at The Vineyard Church for last 2 years. I was asked to take the reigns on the Sound Team, so I ended up not playing as much either, due to wanting it done right. My cover guy's do pretty well when I'm playing. Using a 212 cab on stage with my FX2, and the house is running avg. 102dB SPL @ 15' (A weighted).4 wedges on stage in a 70'x55'x14' room! EAW top boxes and JBL 18's. The drummer is in a booth with a PM, but the howse can definitely crank when it needs to!
Preference is the key word here. Always been a battle, and always will be for most church players. I say move on...there are too many HOW's that need talented artist, and are willing to "be all things to all men (women)" and put their petty preferences aside.
My Pastor finally put aside the micro-managing, control gig awhile back, and since he is an audiophile, this helps us to fulfill our calling as artist in a HOW (House Of Worship)
We do have a basket of ear plugs at the audio desk, and show a slide on the tv's and projection screens to advise of loud music. ;)
 
I'm glad I'm not the only ones who struggle with ALL of these issues,.. I've been doing this 21 years and there are still "Problems" ... Things have been better since I showed are latest paid professional sound guy the video from the previous weeks service where I'm laying down a pretty intense solo and there's no guitar to be heard what so ever... Those days are frustrating to say the least.

I resolved to knowing that the reason I do this is for God and not anyone else, so hopefully he hears it :D

Anyway,...
 
I was talking with the youth minister who plays acoustic with us and he said he and the guy who is over the media were listening to the audio recording, said he could hear me perfectly but when they went and watched the video of the service, they couldn't hear me....LOL

I'm gonna go in there and clean house this Sunday...Haha
 
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