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First rehearsal with Axe/CLR

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I would set the CLR gain like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWK4aS6ppLI

Check your AxeFx and make sure Power amp modeling and Cab modeling are on. These settings are in the Global -> Config page.

Check your CLR settings and make sure you are not in Sub mode (not set to use with a sub) and the preset matches the speaker position. Tilt, Backline or Free field (stand)

I tend to use global EQ to make adjustments at gigs and rehearsal and not mess with my presets. My thinking is I've spent a lot of time matching a set of presets and its easier to make a global high cut boost low mids etc. Then later go back to the woodshed to incorporate those changes into all my presets etc.

I would recommend dialing everything in maybe a little louder than gig volume. At gig levels everything comes into play. Your amp choices your IR's choices. The internal gain staging of the preset. Everything.

If you have tweaked a lot at low volume, you might try starting from scratch on one preset as an experiment. Sometimes its harder to "undo" tweaks than it is to just start clean and dial it in from the get go at volume.
 

Sted

Inspired
I would set the CLR gain like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWK4aS6ppLI

Check your AxeFx and make sure Power amp modeling and Cab modeling are on. These settings are in the Global -> Config page.

Check your CLR settings and make sure you are not in Sub mode (not set to use with a sub) and the preset matches the speaker position. Tilt, Backline or Free field (stand)

I tend to use global EQ to make adjustments at gigs and rehearsal and not mess with my presets. My thinking is I've spent a lot of time matching a set of presets and its easier to make a global high cut boost low mids etc. Then later go back to the woodshed to incorporate those changes into all my presets etc.

I would recommend dialing everything in maybe a little louder than gig volume. At gig levels everything comes into play. Your amp choices your IR's choices. The internal gain staging of the preset. Everything.

If you have tweaked a lot at low volume, you might try starting from scratch on one preset as an experiment. Sometimes its harder to "undo" tweaks than it is to just start clean and dial it in from the get go at volume.
Yeah, thats how I set the gain staging but I found it had much less spike if I rolled the input back a little more than it says and compensated with the master. I think I'm getting there, I've got a gig on Friday 13th (Possibly not the best night to test a new rig!) so that will be the make or break.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Yeah, thats how I set the gain staging but I found it had much less spike if I rolled the input back a little more than it says and compensated with the master. I think I'm getting there, I've got a gig on Friday 13th (Possibly not the best night to test a new rig!) so that will be the make or break.
Cool. Good luck!

I get a tremendous amount of balls from 2 CLR's in tilt (as wedges). A really nice low end rumble like an AX 4x12 Marshall cab.
 

Guitar74

Member
Hi all:
I ran into a similar issue with my Atomic Reactor wedge monitor. I had dialed in what I thought was a great tone at home, but when I went to rehearsal, the highs were just overbearing. I turned the tweeter level on the reactor down to almost off. The dial was maybe a few millimeters from the minimum setting. Then the highs were manageable.

This evening, I tried playing at low bedroom volumes with the tweeter level turned way down like yesterday evening. I found that the tone was warm yet still quite nice, I when I turned up closer to rehearsal level, it sounded just about right.

So why did it sound "good" this evening at low volume with the highs on the monitor turned way down, and why did I dial them in much higher before? I think the human ear very quickly gets acclimated to the first thing it hears, and tones tend to get dialed in that way -- at least at low volumes. But when you crank the volume up, your ears tend to be much more "accurate" in telling you something is wrong.

Maybe before when I was messing around before with the tones to dial them in at low level, the reference tone I had was rather strong on the highs and my ears acclimated to that as being "correct".

Also; consider when you are dialing in tones, where your ears are in relation to the speaker. If you have your monitor set up in "back line" (propped up vertically), and you are standing very close to it, your ears might be at something like a 45 degree angle to the speaker ( relative to the floor ), so you won't get as many highs as the rest of the audience would -- or if you were simply standing five or ten feet farther away from the monitor.

So in a nutshell, dial in your tones at high volume, and jam at that level for a few minutes or so, and then turn the volume down. You may likely find when you turn down, the highs are still sufficient and your ears acclimate to that tone. Or otherwise, you need to train yourself to accept a warmer sound at lower volume.

Also; for the bottom end, traditional cabs (and perhaps monitors too) are dependent on coupling into the floor of the room to build up some low end vibe. Does your rehearsal area have a concrete floor? Concrete doesn't couple as warmly as wood (or doesn't even couple at all). It takes movement and resonance to create sound. Naturally, concrete doesn't move or gives like a wood floor. Try this in your home: Lift up your heel and drive it down hard on the floor. You might hear a deep low resonance (depending on whether you are on the ground floor or upstairs). Now try that on the concrete floor of your garage -- not the same. Concrete flooring (and walls) can also be more reflective of high frequencies.

As for the feeling of a 4x12 cab filling up the room and making your pants flutter, the large majority of that is just down to sound pressure level. I think the CLR series can compete with guitar amps around 120dB SPL, while studio monitors or something like a Reactor 50W don't get that high in SPL. But also depends on the low end coming to the monitor. Also; as another person mentioned in this thread, a lot of that chunky resonant low end of a traditional cab simply gets rolled off in the mix, and the Fractal is meant to replicate a "mix ready" tone.
 

RobinMatrix

Inspired
Also; for the bottom end, traditional cabs (and perhaps monitors too) are dependent on coupling into the floor of the room to build up some low end vibe. Does your rehearsal area have a concrete floor? Concrete doesn't couple as warmly as wood (or doesn't even couple at all). It takes movement and resonance to create sound. Naturally, concrete doesn't move or gives like a wood floor. Try this in your home: Lift up your heel and drive it down hard on the floor. You might hear a deep low resonance (depending on whether you are on the ground floor or upstairs). Now try that on the concrete floor of your garage -- not the same. Concrete flooring (and walls) can also be more reflective of high frequencies.
Just as a general note, your point about bass and concrete/wooden floors is not what is generally accepted from the PA world. It won't be as obvious with a monitor speaker, but it is fairly obvious when running high power sub-bass rigs. Bass is fairly omni-directional and a soft floor can soak up bass energy like a sponge. Sub-bass always works better with a nice concrete floor so it can reflect the energy that would have formed the lower half of the sphere efficiently upwards. The more reflective the surface, the more energy stays in the space instead of escaping to the basement or wherever. Can't beat a nice solid floor for good sub :)

That said, a wooden floor can add harmonic content, warming up the sound and giving an apparent increase in bass, the ear interprets harmonic content as "louder" so that may explain part of it.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
i downloaded yek's presets and had a look

i'm going to suggest a possible reason for your troubles

both of yek's presets had the fx loop block in them, which means that output 2 is not being cab simulated. only output 1

if you plug into your clr from output 2 , it will sound incredibly harsh

yek's presets are also fairly complicated. i would suggest stripping out everything except amp and cab and sitting them on one single line through the grid. keep wah (if you use it) and maybe delay and reverb if you want. simplify and you're less likely to run into problems.


(yek's wah is also set to disengage in the toe up position. if you have nothing attached to external 1, you may find it's on all the time

edit: the default value for external 1 is zero, so this shouldn't be a problem)
 
Last edited:

Sted

Inspired
i downloaded yek's presets and had a look

i'm going to suggest a possible reason for your troubles

both of yek's presets had the fx loop block in them, which means that output 2 is not being cab simulated. only output 1

if you plug into your clr from output 2 , it will sound incredibly harsh

yek's presets are also fairly complicated. i would suggest stripping out everything except amp and cab and sitting them on one single line through the grid. keep wah (if you use it) and maybe delay and reverb if you want. simplify and you're less likely to run into problems.


(yek's wah is also set to disengage in the toe up position. if you have nothing attached to external 1, you may find it's on all the time

edit: the default value for external 1 is zero, so this shouldn't be a problem)
thanks mate, yeah I managed to get the wah set up properly watching one of the KatsuKuri Media videos as the auto engage was a puzzler! Got it sorted now though, I noticed the FX loop but didnt understand why it was in there so I just ignored it, I only use output one on the CLR anyway.
I'll try removing the loop and simplifying everything, I don't mind messing about with the presets as I tend to learn something every time I do!
 

Sted

Inspired
Update after another rehearsal and its not good news.......

Its great news! :pride:

Was actually really happy with the sound tonight, I had dialled in some basic patches for a couple of rock rhythm/leads mostly based on the 5153 red (An amp I probably wouldn't normally use) and messed around with some basic reverb, delays and the high/low cut, IR's etc, I also pushed up the global mids a touch and cut the extreme low a little too, have to say, sounded pretty good!
I used the CLR up behind me in the FF setting and didn't stand right on top of it, set the input vol just under 12 o'clock and the master about 2 o'clock, I got there early and moved around the room listening how it sounded and was pretty impressed. I even got a bit of an appreciative nod from the bass player on my tone....praise indeed!
What really impressed me was the responsiveness of the 5153 model though, rolling back on the guitar worked a treat for rhythm work, wasnt expecting that from a modeller...ever!

So I'm feeling gig-ready for Friday's outing, I shall report back.

EDIT: Credit to Fremen as I'm using his "Punchy Clean" patch, its probably one of the best clean tones I've ever had full stop, top work guy!
 
I a getting a pair of CLR powered wedges in the next few weeks. I'm just going to be playing at home so I hope I get a great sound since I will be playing at bedrooms levels.

I just hope I plug in and these sound great right away. I mean I understand tweaking but I'm playing out of studio monitors. Equator D5's and Pre Sonus E8's at low to medium volumes.

So if these don't sound better than these studio monitors, I'd be disappointed. We will see?
 

Sted

Inspired
I a getting a pair of CLR powered wedges in the next few weeks. I'm just going to be playing at home so I hope I get a great sound since I will be playing at bedrooms levels.

I just hope I plug in and these sound great right away. I mean I understand tweaking but I'm playing out of studio monitors. Equator D5's and Pre Sonus E8's at low to medium volumes.

So if these don't sound better than these studio monitors, I'd be disappointed. We will see?
In my limited experience they probably won't mate! I tweaked all my stuff through my monitors, albeit they are fairly cheap ones, it all sounded totally different through the CLR, they have such a breadth of frequency they give the highs and lows you didn't even think were there, factor in the fletcher Munson effect at high volume and mine were very harsh sounding. However the axe being the axe I was able to start again and am now at a point of satisfaction, if not total tonal nirvana just yet.
 

Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
Cool that you get it working Sted. It takes some time to get use to the different type of setup (amp/cab vs FRFR), but when you get it, it gets easier every time.

I use max 15 min to setup 5 gig ready sounds. To get the perfect volum balance for rythm/solo is what takes the longest time, and i sometimes also need to compensate while i play.

You usually find a couple favorite amps and irs.
 

scorch

Experienced
I'm also doing the 4" gaffers tape over the tweeters on both my K12's and CLR's. Two layers of tape scatters the highs enough to really smooth it out. Also have a reverse Fletcher-Munson graphic EQ bypassed and in-waiting for when those volume wars break out. I'm really happy with my FRFR setup.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
I'm also doing the 4" gaffers tape over the tweeters on both my K12's and CLR's. Two layers of tape scatters the highs enough to really smooth it out. Also have a reverse Fletcher-Munson graphic EQ bypassed and in-waiting for when those volume wars break out. I'm really happy with my FRFR setup.
Seriously? :shock

In that case I would have bought much less expensive FR monitors. I have total trust (TT) in the correct representation of tones through the CLRs. If things are too bright, I adjust the preset / cab or Global EQ, not the monitor.
 

Sted

Inspired
I just went back and re-examined my patches and I did the little mid hump PEQ block in front of the amp block, worked quite well so thanks for the tip @yek, much appreciated mate!

Have to say my live patches sound like ass when not blasting through the CLR though! Lol!
 
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