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First rehearsal with Axe/CLR

Sted

Inspired
Ok, I'll get this out of the way first..... I'm very new to all this modelling, I'm not a complete technophobe but I've always been an amp/pedal guy, however the sheer weight of evidence in support of the Axe-Fx was too much to ignore so I took the plunge. I tried the Matrix/Cab option but it just didn't float my boat, just felt that not having the cab sims was a large proportion of what the unit could potentially deliver, plus I was still trying to get to a smaller set up than my Matamp 2x12 (Though it sounds ace!) so I jumped on a CLR wedge, luckily they were in stock in the EU, got it a week ago.

I picked the CLR solely due to the feedback and recommendations on here, I have no other reference in this field so it seemed a safe bet! I have been tweaking some patches all week to use at rehearsal tonight, obviously using the CLR and I go it sounding pretty damn nice to my ears using my the Mad Oak and some Redwirez IR's, I tried them as loud as was feasible at home and all seemed good.

However at rehearsal volume the sound changed a great deal, I found myself knocking back the treble dramatically to get rid of the ear piercing high end, just checked my main heavy rhythm patch and the treble is on less than 1, I play in a classic rock covers band, Deep Purple, Sabbath etc. Once I got the treble down it was much better and my ears started to appreciate the sound a little better, by the end of the night I was moderately happy with what was coming out but it still sounds overly brittle compared to a lot of demo's I've heard.

So what am I missing? I cant help but feel there is some relationship between all the volume/level knobs that I don't know about which is pushing the sound into this harsh territory. I did read Cliff's post on master volume position and I have noticed that some of mine are quite high say 4.5?

I'm off to bed now but I appreciate any and all advice! :)
 

Phostenix

Power User
Try some of the stock mix IRs. They might sound dull at home, but they sound great when cranked up (IMHO).
 

dpeterson

Axe-Master
Ir's... play with them... I use the high cut in the cab block and pull down as low as 5k depending on the amp, but it really helps at loud volumes.
Dial your tones in at volume as well.
 

viabcroce

Experienced
Hey sted,If your performance volume is higher than the one you made your sounds at, you'll usually end up with a lot of highs and/or lows. This not only involves having to retweak your patches, but also choosing patches which may not fit your performance needs.Try to both make sounds and choosing patches at performance volume :)
 

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
Hey sted,If your performance volume is higher than the one you made your sounds at, you'll usually end up with a lot of highs and/or lows. This not only involves having to retweak your patches, but also choosing patches which may not fit your performance needs.Try to both make sounds and choosing patches at performance volume :)
Yes, for sure. OP try dialing in the presets at live playing levels and I think you'll have much better results as well. If you find them still too shrill and hard to get under control try another, darker IR.
 

jlynnb1

Fractal Fanatic
the MV thing is totally dependent on amp choice. it's not a rule of any kind....he was also referring to a very high gain amp that he was dealing with.
 

Sted

Inspired
Thanks for the replies guys, I will post up my presets (They are basically modded versions of Yek's stuff tbh!) any tips would be great, I guess I will have to go to the rehearsal space for a few hours and tweak away, oh well! ;)
 

Sted

Inspired
As mentioned above use HiCutFreq in the Cab block. Try 5 - 5.5 kHz.
Thanks mate, will try that, hope you dont mind me screwing with your presets, just find it easier to use others and tweak rather than scratch my own at the moment!
 
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sam

Experienced
Also it could be your guitar is harsh, but choosing more midrangey less bright irs and using the high cut should help. Also I often find I need to lower the gain when playing at volume.Also, are you putting the CLR in front of you and pointing it at your face? That will be very intense at volume I like to put the CLR behind me when I play loud, just like a guitar cab.
 

Dramelot

Power User
You will hear pleasant and unpleasant with frfr. It's in your control (and it takes more effort) to get to the happy place.
Been all over the place with both reg cabs and frfr.
Tired of matching my vintage EVMs to foh.
I love the idea of whatever soundguy I get to not mess up.
QSC K12's set flat have been fitting the bill (with 3" duct tape over horn, Thanks SP)
I've been told I am close to the next list offering for 2 CLR's.
So well see if they suit the bill.. hoping for the best.
If so and or not I am going to be very honest about it here.
After all it is going to cost me over 2 grand to play in the CLR group.
Keep at working them, I love to hear success stories!!
 
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Sted

Inspired
Also it could be your guitar is harsh, but choosing more midrangey less bright irs and using the high cut should help. Also I often find I need to lower the gain when playing at volume.Also, are you putting the CLR in front of you and pointing it at your face? That will be very intense at volume I like to put the CLR behind me when I play loud, just like a guitar cab.
I had it in the wedge position behind me so it was still firing into the rehearsal space, I'll be trying it as a backline next time as thats how it will be used at the next gig.
 

Sted

Inspired
2nd rehearsal now and still struggling, seems to be very loud without having any real punch and always sounds quite sterile and brittle, tried a tonne of presets I downloaded as well as some of my own home cooked ones but the sounds are just not convincing me at present, thinking I might need to swap to a tube poweramp and trad guitar cab? I love the way it sounds at lower volume and on recordings but live it really does seem be very toppy and lacking warmth.

Sorry guys, believe me, I'm trying! But at this rate I'll be taking my amps to my next gig.
 

Sted

Inspired
I guess I'll just keep updating this thread if anyone wants to chip in!

Had the CLR in the wedge position at rehearsal tonight but the bass player complained he couldn't hear me so moved it onto its side, then I couldn't hear it! Lol! Ended up having it up behind me and must admit I think it sounds its best in this position ,also had a play with the input/master knobs on the back, didn't realise how much difference this would make tbh, turning the input down to about 12, the master up and then adjusting the axe output level it sounded a lot fuller and nearer what I was expecting, I don't know though, I'm still firmly on the fence about the whole FRFR thing.
 

jlynnb1

Fractal Fanatic
one thing to remember, always, is that is NEVER going to sound like your cab does. it's never going to fill the room the way a cab does (especially open back). you have to adjust expectations and your way of thinking. it's meant to replicate the entire rig...from pedals to head to cab to mic. even the mix ir's have mics baked in. it replicates the entire rig expertly mic'd and ready to go. you hear exactly what your audience hears. it's a different experience.

if you are waiting for that 4x12 flapping your pants moment it's not happening, ever, period. it's not possible and it's not what the axe and CLR were intended for. and tbh, the only person that enjoys that experience is YOU. your audience is usually getting beamed to death from the cab. IF you can adjust to the new paradigm, accept that you are giving yourself, your bandmates and your audience the best possible representation of your tone at every turn (monitors, stage, in ears, foh, whatever)...it's a lot easier to embrace.

i'll openly admit i still miss the stage vibe of a cab sometimes, then after almost every gig the sound guys and audience members and other musicians are raving about how great the tone was, sound guys say it cut perfectly, sounded the same everywhere, required no tweaking....you realize it's worth making that "sacrifice".
 

Sted

Inspired
one thing to remember, always, is that is NEVER going to sound like your cab does. it's never going to fill the room the way a cab does (especially open back). you have to adjust expectations and your way of thinking. it's meant to replicate the entire rig...from pedals to head to cab to mic. even the mix ir's have mics baked in. it replicates the entire rig expertly mic'd and ready to go. you hear exactly what your audience hears. it's a different experience.

if you are waiting for that 4x12 flapping your pants moment it's not happening, ever, period. it's not possible and it's not what the axe and CLR were intended for. and tbh, the only person that enjoys that experience is YOU. your audience is usually getting beamed to death from the cab. IF you can adjust to the new paradigm, accept that you are giving yourself, your bandmates and your audience the best possible representation of your tone at every turn (monitors, stage, in ears, foh, whatever)...it's a lot easier to embrace.

i'll openly admit i still miss the stage vibe of a cab sometimes, then after almost every gig the sound guys and audience members and other musicians are raving about how great the tone was, sound guys say it cut perfectly, sounded the same everywhere, required no tweaking....you realize it's worth making that "sacrifice".
Thanks for that mate, yeah it pretty much sums up my learning curve so far, when I first got it I thought "Wtf is this?" Couldn't believe everyone raved about them! However I'm understanding it all a bit better now and getting closer to producing that finished sound at gig level as this has always been my issue.
 

sam

Experienced
Try it on a chair about 3 or so feet behind you turned up pretty loud in flat mode. This way it's hitting you in the back. I love that sound plus I think it feels great and my guitar responds to it as well.
 
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