First power amp advice

Hey All -

I’m new to the Axe FX III, but not new to amp modeling. I’ve owned a Kemper and have used various plug-ins. I’ve never used a modeler into a power amp into a guitar cab.
I bought the Axe to replace my pedalboard, but I would like to see if I can replace my need for a tube amp with the Axe. I’ve done the FRFR thing with the Kemper and found that it doesn’t scratch my tube amp itch. For this application, I don’t need stereo but most of the power amp choices offer stereo outs. I’m really interested in getting the best “amp in the room” tone. Modeling “flexibility” is second for me in this application as I will only be using two maybe three different amps models.

All that being said, I’ve narrowed it down to the following choices:

1) Matrix GT1000fx
  • the gold standard. A lot a Axe FX players use this power amp and rave about it.
  • Fractal recommended.
  • Axe FX amp/speaker impedance modeling designed for a unit like this.

2) Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170/700
  • the solid state new comer.
  • Mixed reviews on the 170.
  • the 700 seems to be well liked
  • amp like eq control on the unit is nice for live tweeking.

3) Fryette LXII
  • the tube base new comer.
  • Fryette is also Fractal recommended.
  • specifically designed to use with amp modeling
  • real tube interaction with speaker cab.
  • flat response or enhanced response
  • very limited real life feedback from users.

These are the units I’m considering. My instinct says go for the tube based unit, but I’m not so sure. Fractal has put time into modeling the amp/speaker impedance relationship. I wouldn’t want to cut myself short using the LXII. I’ve read that resonance / presence issues can arise with tube power amps. But than again the LXII was designed for modeling.

So many swear by the matrix gt1000fx, and it’s used by many pros. Road tested and pro approved speaks for itself.

The SD powerstage 170 is the least expensive and I really don’t need stereo, but the 170 isn’t as well regarded on this forum. The 700 seem to be a better choice tone / performance wise.

Ultimately, if the power amp route doesn’t work for me, I’ll get an amp with an FX loop and use the 4CM. But I would like to make the axe fx III + power amp work!! Thanks for the advice.
 
I have a Matrix GT1000FX for sale (In Europe), as I bought the powerstage 170.
To be fair, I don't feel like either one is better than the other soundwise.
The only reason why I bought the powerstage is the form factor, as I'm moving my whole rack rig into a portable pedalboard form.

I'd go for the matrix if your rig is rack based, and the powerstage if you are doing a pedalboard.
Never heard of Fryette LXII
 
From what I’ve heard and seen, all of your choices here are good ones, but If you have opportunity to try the new Fryette from a Place with a return policy and you plan on using a rack anyway, that is what I would do... what works for me nowadays is using the built in power amp in my Waza Amp Expander...integrates fantastically with the III as well my couple valve amps.
 
Don't overlook the Fryette Powerstation 2

Similar to the LX 2 but a fraction of the price now I would imagine.

Has all the juicy valve goodness.

Couldn't get on with the Matrix gear. It still at the end of the day sounded like a Solid State amplifier to me, no matter what I did, including calling John at Matrix and asking him to set it up with my Axe Fx 3 point by point over the phone.
 
I’m with Neal. I’ve tried the Matrix 1000 twice now and sold it both times. It worked well but just felt a step behind my Fryette PS2. Bear in mind this was many firmware upgrades ago and I was using the Axe2.

I just received the Fryette LXII and look forward to using it and reporting back.
 
79

Did you buy the Matrix back and get sold on the fact that so many guys were having the time of their lives with it, only to find out that you were right in the first place?

Please post your findings of the LX2 compare with the PS2 as I for one would be insanely interested if it was worth the $
 
I tried the Matrix with both the Axe2 and Ax8. I think Matrix is a great company and think they make really good amps. Like I said the Matrix was really really good but just felt a bit flat in the feel compared to the Fryette. This was many firmwares so I am sure the gap has closed a lot with feel.

I did love how lightweight the Matrix was to haul around. The LXII is about twice the weight but still not too heavy.

The PS2 and LXII are probably going to be close in sound. It will probably all depending whether you want stereo vs mono and 1U rack vs 2U.
 
Found this recent post from Fryette over at TGP. Has me thinking the PS2 is the way to go, given that 1) I don’t need stereo, 2) I don’t need more than 50 tube watts of volume, 3) it’s cheaper than the LXII, and 4) it’s a useful piece of gear for other applications.

Here is the quote:

“ In the old days of rack systems, the power amp needed to add a little color and dynamic feel because most racks used a preamp - or three - or a combination of preamps and slaved amps using resistive (not reactive) loads. Our power amps worked well because they brought the needed dynamic and tonal elements to get closer to a real amp sound.

These days, modelers have more (though certainly not all) of the tonal and dynamic ingredients and we have better loads like our Power Load, Power Station and the Suhr product to enhance the behavior of slaved amps. So now, the power amp can afford to be more neutral. Some feel that this validates SS power amps because "flat response", etc, which is not necessarily true, but that's the pitch.

Just because you have good reactive load and are using an EL34 based amp head, doesn't mean you need an EL34 power amp to somehow retain the amps original flavor. Once the amps EL34s have added their bit of spice, it doesn't make sense that an EL34 power amp is needed to preserve that, or that a 6L6 power amp somehow magically erases it. And especially that a SS power amp will somehow stay out of the way entirely.

In general, what a tube power amp in this case brings is dynamic feel, often severely lacking in SS power amps, or masked in tube power amps with heavy coloration or intentionally dragged dynamic response. The 2/50/2 delivers a very dynamic feel, which is why it works so well in this application. The LXII likewise delivers great dynamic response and can be operated as a more neutral amp sonically, or punched up to behave similarly to the 2/50/2.

I should mention that the 2/50/2 cheats a little because it's actually 65W per channel with both channels driven, comparable to the Mesa Simul Two:90 which is also good for around 65W per channel (both amps measured at 5% distortion). The LXII is 50W per channel on the nose (both channels driven), and close to 60W one channel only.

The main reason for using 6L6s in the LXII is because they tend to be more rugged mechanically, so better suited for use in this tight environment.

How is the LXII different from the Syn5050 (which yes, we also designed)? Well, there is a reason the LXII costs a little more and that mainly has to do with the build quality of transformers. Though similar in design, the LXII OTs use a particularly high quality steel grade and are precision wound with kraft insulation (as opposed to tape), which improves frequency response and tonal consistency. The LXII also has a little more dynamic responsiveness, which as stated above, is important for modelers, preamps and slaved amps. The LXII also has the remote switchable features and Line Outs on each channel. The Syn5050 gives a little more coloration and sag, which they wanted to enhance the flavor of the modules.

About the Presence and Depth trimpots, over the decades, we've seen that most users set those controls a particular way and don't change that much if ever. They're not radical tone shaping features anyway, so the idea that they need to be intensely on demand is not consistent with our long experience on the subject. Being able to set them to taste and then switch them on and off individually or simultaneously is a very useful feature, an idea also borne out in extensive user feedback and validated over 2 years or so in field testing.

Is the LXII just 2 Power Station power amps in one box? Yes and no. Both products follow the same basic topology used on all of our power amp designs, and yes there are essentially two amps on one chassis, but the toroid power transformer in the LXII is a more efficient and responsive item that the square transformers in the PS-2, PS-100, 2/50/2 and 2/90/2, so it kind of straddles both worlds. If you only use one channel of the LXII, it will be stiffer than the PS-2 as a power amp. If you run both channels in stereo, or in bridge mono, you'll have more headroom and get better power supply utilization, which will give you a better feel, but not at bedroom volume. So, which is best for you is all about application.

Hope that answers all of your questions.”

quoted from this thread:

https:// www. thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fryette-lxii-power-amp.2108247/
 
I bet the PS2 will rock!

In threads like this I feel a need to chip in one more great option, just in case it helps any noobs. Or anyone who simply didn't think of it:

Use any good tube amp that has an FX loop!

Hint: This might be an amp you already own*.


I've been gigging this way a long time, most recently with AX8 into the loop return (ie, bypassing the preamp, straight to power amp) of a Friedman DS40 combo. I know, the Friedman pre is what this amp is famous for but I found that I could dial in AX8 to sound so close I didn't care, and still have access to 200+ other amp tones.

Yes, the power sections of guitar amps will have coloration, sag, etc, and these will vary from amp to amp. This needs to be worked around and compensated for in your presets with some careful EQ and usually some tweaking in the amp block advanced options. I don't turn poweramp modelling off fully, as some would suggest, I've found better, juicier tones with it on but you have to be careful not to overdo things like sag, b+, master vol.

FWIW, I own a CLR and have gigged lots FRFR too. It works, but like you said - doesn't scratch my itch. I bought and sold a Matrix GT1000FX years ago. Nice, solid quality amp but unfortunately couldn't match the sound and feel I was getting from any of the tube amps I tried.

* EDIT:
Many (Most?) guitar amps don't have an FX loop. Such as the millions of Fender combos since the 50's. Guess what? Adding an FX loop to an old Fender is an easy mod any tech could do. I once had a loop added to my old Pro Reverb 2x12 combo using two unused 1/4" jacks on the front panel as Send\Return. Most old Fenders have two channels, but most players only ever used one of them, so re-purposing the unused jacks allowed for an easy install and anytime-reversal back to stock circuit (which my tech did years later - vintage blackface spec on a qualified silverface).
 
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I actually run 2 x Powerstations so I can have my effects almost in stereo per se.

It also allows me to blend my signal stage left/right if necessary, depending on what other band members like to hear.

At the same time I can use all of my clean tones through a suitable speaker and my lead tones through my Fav Celestion.

Happy Daze!
 
The Power Stage is also recommended. The Quilter has also been a favorite at Fractal HQ.
Really, which Quilter? I tried a Pro Block 200 with my Axe Fx a few years ago and it never sounded neutral no matter how I ran it. I figured it would be pretty flat if I used the FX return, but it definitely colored my tone. I had power amp modeling enabled on the Axe Fx and it sounded like the Quilter may have been doing some kind of tube power amp emulation too. I ended up returning it and eating a restocking fee. The Power Stage was very transparent in comparison.
 
For guitar cabs I I tried:

Various large-watt SS PA amp channels (Crown, QSC). Good, but I wasn't about to haul one of those big things just for my guitar rig.
1U ART SLA2 (ok)
1U Matrix GT1000fx (much better, and much lighter)
Quilter Tone Block 201 (into FX loop return = really BAD as a poweramp)*

The best sounding amps for me have all been TUBE - the FX loop return into my Friedman is tops, next best would be the loop return of my old 90's Kitty Hawk head or the loop return of a Peters head I had and sold. Not exactly portable or light though.

*I actually owned two Quilter Toneblocks, thought they were GREAT as regular guitar amps with a Fender-ish flavor that happen to be small, light and SS. I sold my first one and bought the newer version because it had an FX loop return, thinking it would make a nice board-mountable power amp for my AX8. I was wrong, it sounded\felt terrible in that scenario for reasons I don't understand.

Lately I'm super tempted to get a SD PS170, but it seems pricey for what it is and I'm afraid that it will end up like all the others. That even if it's good, it won't be 'as good' as my tube amps.
 
I ordered a Fryette PS-2 which arrived yesterday, and I have been playing around with it a bit.

I have been using my Axe FX III for awhile with my 5150 III and 4x12, both in 4CM and also using it that setup just as a power amp form the Axe FX and in addition to that setup a Rivera Rock Crusher. I found that more and more often, I was just using the pre-amp section from the Axe itself in to the effects return of the 5150 III.

So I decided I could simplify the setup and cut down on the size/footprint by just doing with a power amp. The PS-2 seemed to fit most of what I was looking for. So far, I am really happy with it. It did not take long to get it setup and more importantly a sound and feel I am happy with.

Hopefully I will have some time to do a full review and some videos with it from the standpoint of being used as a power amp for a modeller/pre-amp perspective as I play around with it more.
 
The PS-2 lives up to all my expectations. Really glad I went this route. My new favorite way to use the AXE FX III is to route dry amp to my 2x12 Friedman cab (via the PS-2) and route the wet (though not 100% wet) stereo signals to FRFR speakers. I get a huge arena sound that is so fun to play! This setup would be very difficult to achieve without the AXE. I will definitely be using the AXE this way in a live setting. It will bring such a polished sound even to the small bar gigs I play.

One thing I’ve noticed is the when running into the Line In of the PS-2, I need to increase the level on the output block to at least +10db. This give me a similar headroom as when using the PS-2 with an amp. When using the FX Return on the PS-2, the output block level doesn’t need to be adjusted. Also, although the Line In seems to be the recommended input to use on a PS-2 (based on forum research), I don’t notice a difference between the Line In and FX Return (aside from the aforementioned volume differential). I plan to reach out to Fryette to better understand this and report back.
 
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Response from Fryette:


My Q: Between the Line In and FX Return, which input is correct? Why?

Fryette A: Either input is valid. Simply, the FX loop is post Line In.

My Q: And what are the differences between these to inputs?

Fryette A: The FX Return sees the FX Level switch, which sets the sensitivity of the incoming signal at the FX return.

in summary, either input will perform the same. For me, using the FX Return will allow me to avoid having to adjust the level in the Output Block for each preset to allow for more headroom.

Side Note: the PS-2 is a fantastic power amp for the AXE!
 
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