First outdoors show with FM3

aens

Experienced
I've had my FM3 for 6 days only and I had a chance to take it to an outdoors (!!!) show. 500 pax show (sold out with current corona limits). I worked as guitar tech and backliner for a Finnish neo garage rock duo called Ursus Factory. Their guitarist is by far my favourite guitar player from the "new generation". Ursus Factory is one of the best new rock bands and amazing live. Check them out: https://areena.yle.fi/1-50203391

Okay, enough with the praising. I have to say this was a strange show. It's been 3 months since there has been any live shows in Finland and we were among the first bands to do this "big" of an outdoors show. One can organize an outdoors show for 500 person maximum in Finland since the beginning of June. You have to follow strict rules to be able to get a permission: organizer must pay attention to the customers following distancing rules, every customer MUST have a seat, people had to book a table instead of buying tickets with a maximum of 6 person sitting in one table etc. It sucks, but at least we can organize live shows, which is really something these days.

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I brought my FM3 just to use it as a tuner since the band's guitar player is not familiar with digital stuff. He's an all analog guy and likes vintage analog pedals. Not a gear snob and uses no boutique stuff. His equipment is failing from time to time. His distortion pedal was already broken when he was connecting his pedalboard. The Vox AC30 TB he's playing has been in a condition that it needs to be taken to an amp repair for two years already. It’s a ticking time bomb. I'm not sure if it has ever failed, but it has some horrible hiss from time to time. And of course there was some strong radio signal in the area and yes, the amp amplified some of that sweet upper frequency signal noise which was driving him nuts. But that's rock 'n roll, and I respect the guy not taking guitar stuff too seriously. I care about gear too much and sometimes forget about playing. He's the opposite of me. Anyway.

I told him that I have a Marshall preset ready if he wants to try it out. He loves Marshalls so I knew he would be interested. We decided to try the FM3 and ditch it if it doesn't work BUT he also insisted to use his trusty Vox amp. Since the band is a duo he plays both guitar and bass guitar with a strat. He has a Submarine Pickup, which splits in to guitar and bass effects and there to guitar and bass amps. The end of the guitar chain has a stereo chorus and a reverb that he runs DI straight to board. It's a pretty cool setup and sounds huge especially when a fuzz is engaged.

We put the FM3 before the two stereo effects, because the FM3 has only one Amp block that sums to mono. I didn't realize the amp and cab simulation went through to the Vox input. "It sounds horrible" he smirked. Of course it does. We couldn't route the stereo pedals through the FM3 AND the Vox amp because we didn't have enough patch cables. Also the setup was getting a little too complicated for him. I bit the bullet and put the amp and cab block off so we could continue.

His distortion pedal (Zvex Distortron) was broken and he asked if the FM3 has any similar drive blocks. I grabbed a Suhr Riot. "It sounds digital. It has this digital high frequency I don't like. Put it away." Yeah, no wonder. I can imagine how much tone suck his pedals must make. I don't think he has any pedals that have a buffer on his signal chain. I can’t blame the guy, because That’s what he’s used to. I changed to a Tone of Kings with drive cranked all the way. "This sounds better, but maybe not enough gain". I changed to a RAT. He played for a while with it, A-B'd his real pedals, didn't say anything. I could see some frustration beginning because he just wasn't happy. I decided not to test his nerves and switched off all blocks in the FM3. Luckily he had a vintage Boss SD-1 with him. He thought it sounded better. It wasn't any better IMO, but I kept my cool and didn't try to argue.

Then his guitar sound disappeared. The FM3 froze and no sound came out... I booted it and the sound was back on. Also the horrible high frequency hiss just got louder and he was about to go mad. Nothing the sound guys could do about it. The band sound checked and went off stage. He asked me if the Fractal is really fail proof and I told him this can happen with every equipment if you leave it too long in the sun. By this point the unit must've been on for 2 or close to 3 hours since it was the first thing I brought on stage. I knew we could almost certainly defeat the hiss if we just ran a Vox amp and cab simulation through the FM3... but I didn't want to stress the guitar player any further. Also he would kill me if the FM3 was his main amp and it freezes in the middle of the show... I just bit the bullet, again.

The heat was horrible and all our equipment was melting. I moved the FM3 away from the sun and switched it off. I messed with the FM3 noise reducer and got rid most of the noise. I brought the guitarist back on stage just before the doors to check the sound and it was better. The noice reducer took some of the upper high frequencies and he was questioning that. I told him it's "either that or the hiss, you decide". He decided the hiss is worse. What a victory!

Show started and all was going great. I even got to play sampler on stage in one of their songs, which was fun. The show was ecstatic, wild, raw and people went total bananas in their own little restricted squares they weren't allowed to move out. One dancing customer was dragged away by the security when she went dancing in front of the stage. Full mode anarchy!

Obviously there was an encore. The band came back with two acoustic songs. Then their guitarist changed back to his electric guitar (the acoustic had it's own routing).

No sound, again! I ran to the stage and didn't even look at the Fractal and booted it. Those were really long seconds. Sound came back after the boot. Show continued. The FM3 had been in the same shady spot behind a tall road case where I left it after the sound check with no direct sunlight. By this time the sun was about to go down, so it wasn't exposed to as much heat and sunlight as it had been before. I tried the unit after the show and it wasn't that hot.

TL;DR:
We ended up using the FM3 just as a noice reducer for this show. And I used it as a tuner to tune the band guitarist's instruments. Can't say I was not disappointed because I knew the FM3 could've done better. Not the most successful show for me, but sometimes (sh)it happens. The show was crazy good, and that's what matters.

I won't give up trying to expose the band's guitar player to the Fractal world in the near future. It won’t be easy. If he's not interested, I'm cool with that. He's about to buy my Marshall JCM amp, so I better not turn his head before selling that ;)

Lessons learned:
– NEVER EVER expose digital or any musical equipment to direct sunlight in a crazy hot day. Better bring it backstage to cool out if you don't need it on stage. We put a fuzz inside a refrigerator because it was not the first time it was melting and going crazy on stage. The difference in sound was night and day.
– Always be prepared for any possible gear scenario there can happen in a live show. Always have backup equipment. I could've had the Vox amp and sim ready for worst case scenario although I wasn't intending to use the FM3 at the show in the first place. Also bring your own patch cables with you if you intend to showcase your FM3 – at least with a complex pedalboard.
– Your job as a backliner is to keep the artists happy. If they're not happy with something, change it no matter if it sounds worse to you.

Questions:
– Is my unit WAI and or is there a possibility that my unit can be faulty because of the freezes? The outside temperature was between 20 to 23 °C. My unit was on stage for a total of 6 hours including 2 hours in direct sunlight. I know it's a long time. Is that enough to cause freezes? I will pay more attention to this in the future...
– Should I contact support?

I know it's more of a show review, but I decided to share this since there's not much going on these days. Hope you others get to experience live shows anytime soon. Take care ❤

Here's a video I couldn't embed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/skh7dau0d4jvuy4/2020-06-17 20.51.55.mov?dl=0

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The only out door test I've done is had the FM3 in direct sun for about 45 minutes during the hottest part of the day. Heat index was close to 100+. I took a heat gun and measured the surface area of the FM3 and it was about 158F. I couldn't even touch it the metal was so hot. The FM3 was reporting it's internal temp as around 105F. No lockups.

What firmware are you on? Also, what was the CPU level like? I imagine the higher the CPU for a given preset, the unit may run hotter and the direct sun pushes it over the edge? But definitely worth contacting support to find out what should be expected.

On a side note, I've worked with a band like this where they have two people in it. Guitar has a bass pickup for E/A string and two outputs. We were able to convert their entire setup to an Axe-Fx III with great results. The preset is almost maxing out the AF3 but it has three separate signal paths for guitar, bass, and a special vocal mic they use. Each path has all of the effects they want for each signal chain. He runs it all with an FC-12 and three expression pedals to bring in/out each signal as needed. It's crazy the amount of sound two people can create. What he was really sold on is all of the ins/outs the AF3 has along with how great it sounds. Eventually the idea would be to do more song specific presets and probably run a keyboard an acoustic into another set of ins/outs since as long as everything is cabled up, the preset can route everything as needed for that particular song. Also cut down on CPU a bit as every single thing required wouldn't have to be in one preset. Anyway, just mentioned that as if they are looking to buy more gear, the AF3 may fit better with their setup.
 
If it won't run in 23C, Id be tipping there may be a problem? Perhaps contact support.
Thanks
Pauly
 
The only out door test I've done is had the FM3 in direct sun for about 45 minutes during the hottest part of the day. Heat index was close to 100+. I took a heat gun and measured the surface area of the FM3 and it was about 158F. I couldn't even touch it the metal was so hot. The FM3 was reporting it's internal temp as around 105F. No lockups.

What firmware are you on? Also, what was the CPU level like? I imagine the higher the CPU for a given preset, the unit may run hotter and the direct sun pushes it over the edge? But definitely worth contacting support to find out what should be expected.

On a side note, I've worked with a band like this where they have two people in it. Guitar has a bass pickup for E/A string and two outputs. We were able to convert their entire setup to an Axe-Fx III with great results. The preset is almost maxing out the AF3 but it has three separate signal paths for guitar, bass, and a special vocal mic they use. Each path has all of the effects they want for each signal chain. He runs it all with an FC-12 and three expression pedals to bring in/out each signal as needed. It's crazy the amount of sound two people can create. What he was really sold on is all of the ins/outs the AF3 has along with how great it sounds. Eventually the idea would be to do more song specific presets and probably run a keyboard an acoustic into another set of ins/outs since as long as everything is cabled up, the preset can route everything as needed for that particular song. Also cut down on CPU a bit as every single thing required wouldn't have to be in one preset. Anyway, just mentioned that as if they are looking to buy more gear, the AF3 may fit better with their setup.

Oh no, I didn’t know the FM3 has a temperature meter! I should’ve checked that at least in the sound check... my unit was really hot during the direct sunlight exposure, but not that hot I couldn’t touch it.

I’m running the latest firmware. I knew about the CPU running hotter on high resource presets so I checked it and it was running around 60%. The only difference I made to my patch was to remove the reverb block to make sure there’s enough CPU headroom and I added Input 2 and Output 2. I haven’t experienced unit lockups before this.

Your band sounds really cool and the setup sounds exactly what is needed with this band. What’s the band you mentioned called? I know I still have a long way to go if this band’s guitarist even wants to take a look at the Fractals anymore. I’ll try to A-B the real Marshall to convince him it’s not as superior as he might think compared to the Fractals. Getting him to sell his gear and buy an Axe FX III sounds like lightyears ahead from now, although I know he would be much better off with it. He just doesn’t know it yet 😉
 
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Oh no, I didn’t know the FM3 has a temperature meter! I should’ve checked that at least in the sound check... my unit was really hot during the direct sunlight exposure, but not that hot I couldn’t touch it.

I’m running the latest firmware. I knew about the CPU running hotter on high resource presets so I checked it and it was running around 60%. The only difference I made to my patch was to remove the reverb block to make sure there’s enough CPU headroom and I added Input 2 and Output 2. I haven’t experienced unit lockups before this.

Your band sounds really cool and the setup sounds exactly what is needed with this band. What’s the band you mentioned called? I know I still have a long way to go if this band’s guitarist even wants to take a look at the Fractals anymore. I’ll try to A-B the real Marshall to convince him it’s not as superior as he might think compared to the Fractals. Getting him to sell his gear and buy an Axe FX III sounds like lightyears ahead from now, although I know he would be much better off with it. He just doesn’t know it yet 😉

Just to clarify, I"m not in the band, just helping them with the Fractal gear. The name of the band is VOTA, website is https://votaband.com
 
I inquired about the FM3’s ability to regulate its internal temperature in a 90+ degree, outdoor environment. I guess I’m going to have to do a little more testing before I consider it road worthy. I can’t have my rig shutting down due to heat this summer.
 
Huh, I never thought of this, but it seems so obvious now. It makes me think of why some professional telephoto camera lenses are white (to reduce the chances of overheating in direct sunlight). I wonder if it’s common for some gear to have a white chassis for the same reason and/or are used with purpose-built shades to block direct sunlight on stage. Never seen this before, though. But it seems so obvious. Maybe it’s because brightly colored objects on stage would be distracting to the audience?
 
heat is a real concern when playing/performing in the direct sun (no shade), sun spot 23? Oh no! Not my gear please...
 
The outside temperature was between 20 to 23 °C. My unit was on stage for a total of 6 hours including 2 hours in direct sunlight.

WOW! I would not consider 20-23C to be hot in the least. That feels like a nice Spring day to me. Did you mention a warmer temp elsewhere in your post I may have missed?
I would get in touch with support for sure.


The only out door test I've done is had the FM3 in direct sun for about 45 minutes during the hottest part of the day. Heat index was close to 100+. I took a heat gun and measured the surface area of the FM3 and it was about 158F. I couldn't even touch it the metal was so hot. The FM3 was reporting it's internal temp as around 105F. No lockups.

This is much more comforting...
 
WOW! I would not consider 20-23C to be hot in the least. That feels like a nice Spring day to me. Did you mention a warmer temp elsewhere in your post I may have missed?
I would get in touch with support for sure.

That was just the outside temperature I checked from a weather report after the show. It was way hotter on stage where the sun was shining directly from a cloudless sky. Unfortunately I didn’t know about the FM3 internal temperature meter until now and I don’t possess a heat gun.

There’s been some talk about some units that have the fan running at all times. I have one of those units. I haven’t contacted support yet since I’m on my summer cottage, but will soon.
 
I got mine from G66 2 weeks ago and it was with FW 1.04
Mine is sitting on my desk with room temp at 23C and constant.

I had several freeze but few. When it happened it was sometime with no sound anymore or other freeze were not cutting the sound but I could not change anything on the unit 5no switching, or button were working). Only a reboot fixed it.

I checked temperature (as I was looking at the fan that never stop) and when the unit froze temp (just after reboot) was at 34C, so no big issue. Form other threads it seems the fan start at 35C and then stop when the unit go back to 30C (that rarely happen unless you cool down the unit).

Anyway for the freeze it was happening each time with some presets (and not only with the one close to 80% CPU). I don't know why but I deleted these presets (got it via exchange and were made for FM3, not a conversion from AXEII etc..)
After deleting these presets, my unit run all the day and did not get any other freeze yet. It also never happened using factory presets.

So I think (at least for my unit) it is FW related and FAS is working hard on it to fix all small issues some user are having
 
Following. This is a little concerning, as the AX8 was amazing in high temps. I toured it in the Middle East twice and did shows in excess of 110 degree weather with absolutely no failures... even when our FOH and monitor consoles died, the AX8 did great.

I have an outdoor show in Louisiana next weekend - I'll try to remember to report back.
 
FYI I sent a support ticket to G66 an hour ago. Sussi already answered me that they’re sending me a new unit tomorrow. Amazing service as always.
 
Mine comes Monday, hope I don't have these issues. I'll just put it in a bucket of water and let it cool down after I unplug it of course. Think that would void the warranty? 🤔 😏
 
Mine comes Monday, hope I don't have these issues. I'll just put it in a bucket of water and let it cool down after I unplug it of course. Think that would void the warranty? 🤔 😏
Maybe use it inside a freezer just to be sure 🤔
 
Does anyone think for the time being... maybe try a really good Laptop Cooler under your FM3s till they get this issue resolved?
 
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