First Gig FM3 into Katana WOW

[lauke-lux]

Define “decent”.

It makes no sense to me to buy a cheap modeling combo amp, with a cheap speaker and cabinet, then buy a much better modeler and plug it into the power amp return running the modeler through that same cheap speaker and cabinet and ignoring that the main reason to have the amp (the Katana’s modeler, its “preamp”) is not being used.

A better solution would be to find a small powered PA cabinet, maybe with a 10”, FRFR or not, that costs about the same amount. The money spent will go directly to the parts that are necessary and nothing is wasted, and the parts are designed to work together to do what the modeler does, create sound accurately.

https://www.sweetwater.com/c134--10...6eyJQcmljZSBSYW5nZSI6WyIkMzAwIHRvICQ1MDAiXX19

Ideally, if you can have the tweeter centered within the main speaker (hope I express myself clearly enough) it will make it easier to get feedback. 'Dunno' why but that's what I noted. No idea if there are such monitors in this price range. The dB Technologies FM8 or FM10 and maybe the ALTO's ?

 

[Jamme1961]

Do you mind sharing your preset. I would like to hear the result with my Katana's also.

I’m using Austin buddy’s solid gold pack - I may have tweaked the low cut and high cut a little more - I’ll check and get back.

Deluxe Verb Vibrato
low cut is at 98hz high cut is 8861hz
drive 4.54
input trim 12 oclock
bass 3.42
treble 5.87
level -11.3db
i have power amp model on and cabs off going into power amp in on Katana

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Ideally, if you can have the tweeter centered within the main speaker (hope I express myself clearly enough) it will make it easier to get feedback.

I think it’s about the same.

I adjust both rigs the same way: I turn it up until the guitar is beginning to ring. We were playing “Come Together”, and “Hey Joe”, the other night, and I’m prone to using a bit of feedback in those songs, and didn’t find it much different than I would with my tube combo. The EV PXM-12MP cabs use a coaxial tweeter and a 12”, and at the same distance and about the same volume I got about the same response. That’s what I’d expect because it’s simply acoustic coupling.

 

[Jamme1961]

Hey I’m interested in trying out the EV PXM-12MP - will the wedge shape project from behind me to the audience- I’m not miked

 

[ElectricPhase]

Lots of emphatic statements here, but I wouldn't write of the Katana so quickly. I used one in an emergency situation with minimal prep, and went into the acoustic channel rather than the effects return...it sounded better that way. My recollection is that it sounded very good.

On the K e m p e r forum, there's a tweak recipe that's supposed to flatten the response curve of the Katana acoustic channel even more. It consists of a Parametric EQ and turning Character all the way down. I saved it, but haven't had reason to try it yet. Based on that gig experience, it might worth a shot if you already have a Katana lying around.

 

[Jamme1961]

Lots of emphatic statements here, but I wouldn't write of the Katana so quickly. I used one in an emergency situation with minimal prep, and went into the acoustic channel rather than the effects return...it sounded better that way. My recollection is that it sounded very good.

On the K e m p e r forum, there's a tweak recipe that's supposed to flatten the response curve of the Katana acoustic channel even more. It consists of a Parametric EQ and turning Character all the way down. I saved it, but haven't had reason to try it yet. Based on that gig experience, it might worth a shot if you already have a Katana lying around.

Did you use the cabs on into the katana acoustic channel? Thanks

 

[ElectricPhase]

Did you use the cabs on into the katana acoustic channel? Thanks

Yes.

 

[Jamme1961]

I’ll have to try this thanks

 

[Jamme1961]

 

[unix-guy]

Hey I’m interested in trying out the EV PXM-12MP - will the wedge shape project from behind me to the audience- I’m not miked

They can also be placed "upright" or mounted on a pole. I'm not sure they would be great as a wedge behind you because then they are projecting upwards.

When I was still using wedges live, I would put one in front of me facing towards me and one on top of my rack upright for the audience. This was with Xitone wedges but the same approach applies.

I could also get some benefit of stereo from that even though it was front/back vs left/right.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

will the wedge shape project from behind me to the audience

Sure, if the room has a normal height ceiling. I have used my EVs that way many times, and let them bounce off the ceiling and around the room. They sounded great.

I’m not miked

You shouldn't mike FRFR cabinets, if you need additional coverage run a line to the FOH system and let them bring you up in the house system.

One of the places I play I've done some experimenting: It's a regular-size bar, with a decent size stage. The first time I took the gear I used both EVs, running stereo, one on its side firing forward and the other on top of it in a wedge orientation, so it was pointing up, and the combination sounded great. The next time I used a single wedge on the floor behind me, and it sounded great too, though I brought up its volume a little because I was only using the single cabinet. The third time I used both wedges, one stacked on the other like before, with a stereo feed to FOH, and the last time it was just the single wedge with a feed to FOH. Everything worked, the balance with unmiked amps with and without the FOH feed was just where it should be.

And… heh… one time, months ago, in a different place, I ran both cabinets on their side stacked, like a stack of 1x12 cabs, and was easily keeping up with the FOH system. They are good-sounding speakers and can get very loud if necessary.

 

[Jamme1961]

Thanks guys I was thinking of buying one to check out - I could return it if it doesn’t work out. I didn’t know you could put it on its side -thanks

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I didn’t know you could put it on its side

There are three separate ways to position the EV cabinet, depending on what you need. That's true of many floor wedges.

You do need to be aware that the IEC (power) cable, and the XLR or 1/4" plug will stand up pretty high if you use the cabinet on its side and place something else on top. These will help with the IEC and XLR…

LyxPro XLR Angle Adapter Dual Male and Female can be positioned to 4 Different Angles Right Left and 90 Degree Great for Mixers That Interfere with Ot

IEC C14 to C13 Power Adapter PDU Plug/Socket Up 90 Degree for LCD Wall Mount TV 2 Pack

 

[Jamme1961]

There are three separate ways to position the EV cabinet, depending on what you need. That's true of many floor wedges.

You do need to be aware that the IEC (power) cable, and the XLR or 1/4" plug will stand up pretty high if you use the cabinet on its side and place something else on top. These will help with the IEC and XLR…

LyxPro XLR Angle Adapter Dual Male and Female can be positioned to 4 Different Angles Right Left and 90 Degree Great for Mixers That Interfere with Ot

IEC C14 to C13 Power Adapter PDU Plug/Socket Up 90 Degree for LCD Wall Mount TV 2 Pack

Do you use it in guitar cab mode?

 

[Jamme1961]

Played the katana again I’m gonna try not to spend the money right now I am extremely happy with the sound. I’m always searching for the next best thing.

 

[FPFL]

The FRFR can’t be blamed for the guitarist’s bad decisions on stage. The same problems can occur using a Katana, or solid-state or tube amp into a regular guitar cabinet, if the player hops between amp models, or uses extremes in their EQ, or even using a tube combo with pedals that have sounds that go from screeching highs to booming muddy lows. Don’t blame the equipment for the bad choices of the person using it.

An FRFR is an incredible tool that allows one cabinet to output the sound of the modeler, something the Katana doesn’t do as well since it’s designed to compliment that particular amp and cabinet with their attending limitations. It’s understandable that people gravitate to cheaper solutions just to get started, but there’s no reason to try to tear down the much more widely accepted solutions that were designed for the modeler.

Well, you are half right and half misrepresenting my point.

1. Yes - There are many other bad decisions that a guitar player can make, no argument there! : )

2. But no I never said "blame FRFR" that's your words not mine. My point was that in digital newbie hands FRFR it is the easiest way to get frustrated. Changing cabs is generally much more impactful than changing amps, and is harder to "see" than changing EQ. That analogy doesn't fly in the real world. I've been helping people build patches since the AF1: Standard.

Changing cabs per patch is suddenly tempting, it is the single biggest change you can make to your output... and it used to be hard! Wow that is cool when you are practicing at home. I also love it. That said, Its well documented here and on every other forum I've ever seen that changing IR mid live set can be a rodeo of tweaks to accommodate.|

Let's not pretend its trivial for the new folks who were all tubes and cabs before, like the OP. It may bum them out on digital overall. We've seen that many times on this very forum. Going digital is a journey not a light switch after a purchase.

So to be clear, I'm not saying it can't be done, tons of people do it, but they are experienced and/or have help. Its bad advice for an amateur to digital who is gigging unless they are ready for extra work. Get well used to the basics of amp and FX changes, well used to how to tweak sounds, then in time, try for more like IR change live is my advice. I suspect we can agree on that if we are staying true to the OP thread.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Do you use it in guitar cab mode?

No. That turns off the coaxial tweeter.

This is my “workflow”: I use the “Monitor 2” setting, because according to their response graph it’s the flattest, then, using the global GEQ, I roll off bass as necessary to deal with stage rumble, or I sweep the lows with a preset consisting of a sine wave from the Synth block -> Out 1 then use the global PEQ to reduce just that frequency. It kinda depends on the room and whether there’s a real stage and how well made it is. A concrete floor doesn’t rumble, a lousy stage flexes and booms as you walk on it, and really good stage doesn’t do either. As I test the gear and adjust my volume I adjust the lows. That’s in addition to any roll off I did in the Cab block which I set when I built the preset.

The room and stage control how I set the overall EQ, but I do it in the modeler because it’s more convenient to me:

• One room had a horrible stage, and a PEQ notch at 90 Hz cured it. That room doesn’t have a FOH feed so I adjusted the global Out 1 feed.
• In another room, with a better stage, Out 1 gets a pretty gentle roll off from 120 on down using a GEQ to cure the stage, and FOH gets a feed without any adjustment from Out 2 that the engineer can adjust how he wants.

I said I use the modeler to adjust the EQ because it’s more convenient to me; That’s because it’s a PITA to access the cabinet’s controls with the guitar strapped on; I’m much less likely to slam the guitar into something crouching in front of the modeler. And, if I have both cabs with me I have to adjust two things and I’m lazy, I’d rather adjust only one.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Well, you are half right and half misrepresenting my point.

Any misrepresentation was unintentional. The meaning of your statement wasn’t clear.

Inanimate objects can’t be blamed for how we use them, and, though it’s more of an experience thing that teaches people to not make wild swings in their overall sound, the same problem exists with any cabinet and modeler, or a synthesizer. If the gear is flexible enough to imitate several different types of amps and cabs or other instruments, it’s possible to misuse it, and generally the band, or the sound person, or a friend will quickly point out the problem.

The same logic used about the FRFR applies to the modeler or a synthesizer, but do we want to recommend not using them, or using something to act as training wheels? I doubt it.

 

[TheloniusJ]

I had decent success with the Katana in a "loud band, no FOH" situation as well (it did better than my HR 108s in that situation). However, like someone else pointed out, the Katana cab has a sound of its own that wasn't doing it for me with the amp models I liked in the FM3. I moved to a PS200/cab set up with IMO sounds worlds better. I actually ended up selling my Katana after I got the PS200 because I'm fairly certain I'd never need the Katana again.

I should mention that I am still a HUGE fan of the Katana as a stand alone gigging amp solution. I played multiple gigs with the Katana and it always held up (I had the GC foot controller with two EV-5s and just ran a tuner in front of the amp...that's it). I just thought it wasn't a good solution for the FM3. Honestly, I'd probably rather just play the Katana by itself rather than try to drive it with the FM3. It seemed like the Katana amp models were tuned pretty well for that cab and they all sound good. I'm sure someone could spend a ton of time EQing the FM3 to sound good with the Katana cab, but I'd bet you'd end up with a sound that was pretty close to the onboard amps of the Katana, so why?

 

[vika12]

I agree with running the FM3 into a good solid state amp, rather than an FRFR. I use a Quilter Tone Block 202, which has an FRFR cab setting. That allows me to run amp and cab modelling ON with FM3 effects, while keeping the Quilter EQ and other controls functioning. Works really well IMO. I tried FRFRs live and found them limiting and not as reliable. My 2 cents.