Finally had time with my new Ax8 ..... thoughts & questions:

B

Bman

Power User
I finally was able to have the house to myself for about 4 hours today. I tested two setups. The first was into a Alto TS210 powered monitor. The 2nd was into the FX return of my Marshall DSL 40C.

I got a chance to go through the Fractal presets a few nights ago at lower than TV levels through an old solid state combo amp. The tone was sh!t but it was a great exercise in learning to navigate the footswitching and wrap my head around the difference between a preset, a scene and X/Y switching. Between now and then I've been watching youtube vid's - AB's Gain Staging, several Leon Todd, etc.. I bought Austin Buddy's Naked amp package and glad I did. The amps are set up with the levels already usable and it's very easy to audition or sift through different amps looking for specific tones. Eventually I'll make my way through all of them...maybe.

When I first hooked up the TS210 and began the tone was pretty crappy. My first thought was that hopefully I can resell it pretty quickly and take the speaker back to guitar center since it's within 30 days. But I also recalled that I needed to take the time to set up the proper gain staging and then also knew that these speakers need some EQ-ing in the low and high end. So I watched the gain staging video again and tweaked the global EQ to a frowny face and got much better. But it still wasn't the 'golden tone' or anything deeply inspiring. There is still a bit of odd sounding distortion or clipping going on.

So, I decided to test the thing into my DSL 40. Eww. That's a tad worse and after tweaking a few Pre-Amp oriented amp models, removing the Cab and Pwr Amps while also turning off the SAG, I got a few usable tones but not quite pristine. So, I plugged straight into the Amp and set up my normal set up....loud. I noticed that when the thing is blasting me in my face there's quite a lot of messy crap going on there too. It's only when I move away from the amp, does it become good. And that's when I realized that even my old '73 JMP sounds like sh!t when it's blasted right at my face.

I went back to the TS210 and turned it up loud. I was rewarded this time with a tone cleaner than the amp and once I cut the high's and low's the mid felt like it might cut like the amp. But there's still some garbage in the tone frequencies that I feel shouldn't be there. I feel like maybe it's clipping although the clean sounds are clean. So I ask the following:
1. Is the guitar input level supposed to be 0db? - There is a little bit of red input clipping on some of the harder picked or chugged notes.

2. Is using the global EQ really the best way to zone in on the frequencies causing the percieved issues? - I just read the EQ wiki and saw that maybe I an make a PEQ block and use it globally to cut unwanted frequencies.

3. If No. 2 is true do is it also necessary to cut the cab's frequencies? That seems redundant to me

4. Do you guys find it's necessary to add a noise gate? There's a bunch of clutter that the default gate cuts but you can still notice it.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully someone who's new will get something out of it. FWIW I found myself gravitating to Austin Buddy's Marshall SuperLead (not the early Plexi) preset and the Fractal Modern II. I like the EVH tones too and love all of the cleans.

cheers
 
....have you got anything other than an amp to run your AX8 into ?
Anything " clean " , like a mixer with a headphone jack , or a PA speaker , or a stereo even ?
You will be sonically rewarded if you can run your signal into an unadulterated source of amplification that provides FRFR
- Full range , Flat response.
A guitar cabinet will "color" the sound.
Good luck. Lots of help here on the forum. You've got the best sounding guitar amp/effects box on the planet. Get something worthy to listen to it through , and you will not need to warp the global EQ.
 
I’m running into an Alto TS210. It’s a budget powered speaker 550 watts per channel, that’s supposed to be close to FRFR or at least it’s reviewed as being decent. I didn’t really have it pout enough to clip and the output led didn’t indicate clipping.
 
I have not tried an Alto TS210, but the amplification really makes a difference with Fractal. As you would expect, it sounds much better through better quality -- and usually more expensive -- FRFR speakers. I like Atomic CLR best of what I have owned. Good studio monitors also work great if you don't play out.

Your questions. 1) It's OK to tickle the red, but you don't want to clip. There's an input pad in I/O options for hotter guitars. 2) I just use high cut and lo-cut. This is especially important to cut through a band mix. I cut everything below 70 or 80 and cut highs 20 or 30%. I used to use PEQ when I had an Ultra but no longer feel I need it. It's a good tool if it works for you. 3) I think I cut both places and yes I think that's probably redundant. 4) I personally do not add a noise gate.
 
I think the bottom line is do what you have to do to get the sound you like.
Personally, I haven't found the need to use the global eq with a CLR or an Alto TS112A but, lots of people make high/low cuts.
 
I got my AX8 a few months ago and started out with very similar experience to what you are having. Trust me and hang in there. I have since spent a TON of time with the unit and even more time reading, researching, watching numerous YouTube vids etc etc. Bought a ton of 3rd party presets and a ton of Ownhammer 3rd party IR's. In a nutshell here is what I have learned so far:

1) Your monitoring system is a HUGE part of the equation. When I first got the AX8 I was using it through my JBL LSR 305's monitors. While it sounded decent it sounds 50X better through my 2x12 Mission Gemini. I suggest going with the tried and true FRFR systems such as a Yamaha DXR10, Atomic CLR, Mission Gemini, Xitone etc. I know some guys use the Altos and like them but I only have experience with my JBL's, a Freidman ASM-12 and my Gemini 2x12. Huge difference to my ears with the Gemini. Nothing against Alto but you wouldn't buy a expensive top of the line car stereo and keep the factory speakers in.

2) Set the guitar input into the AX8 where it "tickles" the red. When you dig in it should briefly light up the red.

3) Your choice of IR and your ability to make the correct tweaks to the Cab Block are IMO the most important part of the entire chain. There are great factory IR's already loaded in with the AX8 but the best money I have spent since getting the AX8 has been on Ownhammer IR's. Making significant low and high cuts (using your ears) in the cab block, and engaging/setting the proximity to taste as well.

4) Level your presets using the VU meter. Having the level too low or too high will cause it to sound weak or clip.

5) You may already know this but.....Fractals amp models behave exactly as the real amp model would. With this as Cliff says "comes great responsibility." If you are unfamiliar with certain amp models especially with Master Volume amps you can seriously make an amp sound terrible. For example: Mesa Dual Rectifier amps gets all of their distortion from the preamp. If you were dialing in the real amp you would never get the Master past 4 or 5 or it would take your head off. With the AX8 you CAN crank the Master and keep the overall volume low but just because you can does not mean you should. Not saying you are doing this but it's good to keep in mind with every amp model since the AX8 will allow you to do things that in the real world would not be done or recommended.

As for your questions. I never use the Global EQ. I do use Para EQ's on occasion to cut out some unwanted frequencies but its rare since I can generally handle that with appropriate cab cuts and tweaks in the amp block. On occasion though I do need a para EQ for some stubborn frequency but its not that often.

I only ever use or need a Noise gate with very high gain amp models.

Having a great monitor to play through, setting your levels correctly into the AX8 as well as in the amp block, using the VU meter to make sure levels are correct and tweaking the cab block with a great IR will make a huge difference. Dialing in the amp model same as the real life model would be dialed is good to keep in mind too. Also give it some volume if you can. I know its the Fletcher Munson effect but whatever the AX8 sounds best cranked up. :)

I'm not one of those that thought the AX8 sounded phenomenal out of the box. (Although I liked it better initially than the Kemper). It sounded great dont get me wrong but Its taken me a lot of learning and time to get where I am at now. IMO the AX8 sounds actually WAY MORE AMAZING than I could have ever imagined now that I know more of how to actually use it correctly and have become more efficient at getting the sounds I want out of it.

Long post. Hope it helps.
 
I had an Alto when I first got my Axe-Fx and hated it. Didn’t care for it till I got a better FRFR. Once I got some XiTone’s I was very happy. Best to find an IR that sounds the way you want right off the bat and tweak from there. I always make low and high cuts in the cab block then I use the Global EQ to tweak to taste for live use.
 
Thanks guys. I was under the impression that Austin Buddy’s came with IRs. I’ll check around for a free IR or two to compare. I do recall Pete Thorn stating he thought that IRs we’re the most important contributor to getting a good tone with the AFII.
 
What's the correct method for control volume out of the powered monitor? Is it turning by controlling the output levels at the Ax8? Does that affect the gain staging going on with the powered monitor?
 
Bman said:
Thanks guys. I was under the impression that Austin Buddy’s came with IRs. I’ll check around for a free IR or two to compare. I do recall Pete Thorn stating he thought that IRs we’re the most important contributor to getting a good tone with the AFII.
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The factory cabs have irs from most of the people who sell irs. OH is ownhammer, ML is Mikko, etc, etc. Many that fractal sells are in there. So you already have 3rd party ir's. The irs are super important when everything else is covered correctly, like good frfr or amp\cab. Knowledge and skill of the preset maker. I am not saying don't experiment. Just letting you know about the factory ir's. Factory being fractal and many ohers who sell irs.
Don't equate factory presets with factory irs
 
It is stated above but just so you don't miss it, use the hi and low cut in the cab block. This one thing will likely be a big improvement. You can do as much as 150/5k to start with. Once you get a handle on other settings you can back them off. I usually end up around 100/9k now
 
Thanks brian. That's about the range I was cutting with the global EQ. I got that range from Austin Buddy's video and of course it's tweak to taste. I guess I'm little confused:

Are the 3rd party IR's that much better than the factory IR's? Or are they not included at all?

Also, unsure about the best method to control volume. Crank the output to the monitor and control the level at the monitor or control it at the Ax8 via the output 1 or 2 knob? I suspect at the AX8 but don't know if I'm affecting the gain stage sequence that way.
 
YES frfr is the solution, I use a EV ZLX 15P powered monitor and it sounds awesome with the AX8 and AXE-FX.
IMHO that way you get the best of what the system has to offer - pre + power amp + cab + mic = :)
as far as volume / gain control I just set it up per the instructions in manual + adj the levels on the monitor to taste and control vol right from out 1 ( main) on AX8. I mostly control vol with vol knob on guitar - very handy.
 
I set the low cut in the cab block from 90 - 130 or so
The hi cut at 4600. Works very well for me.

No added noise gate, for Rock and Prog rock.
 
I also use the lo and hi cut on the cab block. There is no magic number for me. I use my ears for both. I generally do not use the noise gate. I only use it when the digital rig preset is a bit noisy.
 
I wouldn't say after market cabs are way better than factory. The main advantage imo is the variety and organization. For example if you want a pre rola greenback ir, there's only a handful. If you buy a cab back there's hundreds organized with different mics, from bright to dark, etc. it's much easier to get a good amp cab pairing.
 
Bman said:
Thanks guys. I was under the impression that Austin Buddy’s came with IRs. I’ll check around for a free IR or two to compare. I do recall Pete Thorn stating he thought that IRs we’re the most important contributor to getting a good tone with the AFII.
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He's right.
 
Bman said:
What's the correct method for control volume out of the powered monitor? Is it turning by controlling the output levels at the Ax8? Does that affect the gain staging going on with the powered monitor?
Click to expand...
I've seen varying opinions on this. Always thought it was best to crank up the FRFR and control your volume on the AX8. This is especially convenient live. You just reach down and adjust. But I recently saw a video that instructed to turn the AX8 much higher to around 12 -3 o'clock. I guess experiment. I run my AX8 into a Radial DI box that converts it from a line level signal to a mic level signal allowing me to set the output on the AX8 much higher.
 
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