Finally figured why...

[Jason Scott]

Sure. And I respect that.
But when using the Axe, my aim is to get the most authentic sounding results possible. That's just what I want to do. I want it to sound like a real mic'ed amp. Mic'ing a mic'ed signal is physically impossible.

Like EQ, the included mic's are simply filters. If that filter enhances the sound, it's no less authentic than using an EQ to augment it.

 

[AtomicBlaze]

Sure. And I respect that.
But when using the Axe, my aim is to get the most authentic sounding results possible. That's just what I want to do. I want it to sound like a real mic'ed amp.
Mic'ing a mic'ed signal is physically impossible.

But what if adding the mic makes it sound more authentic? I could care less how it should work theoretically if it sounds better it is better.

 

[B:ASSMASTER]

 

[solo-act]

All my IR's had the MIC's set to off. I set them to DYN 57 and some at DYN 58..and holy fuck Batman...what a night and day difference!

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

 

[Jason Scott]

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

The mic is simply a filter, a low-cut filter in this case. If I'm cutting the low-end to clean up a dark tone, the last thing I want to do is forego the low-cut and add more low-end using the proximity effect parameter.

 

[AtomicBlaze]

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

Interesting, that is good to know is NULL or None the default?

 

[Jason Scott]

Interesting, that is good to know is NULL or None the default?

None.

 

[solo-act]

The mic is simply a filter, a low-cut filter in this case. If I'm cutting the low-end to clean up a dark tone, the last thing I want to do is forego the low-cut and add more low-end using the proximity effect parameter.

YMMV, I choose NULL for everything and typically have proximity at or near zero. This gives me option to keep low end I want and reduce what I don't want. Amp GEQ and bass knob (and sometimes a bit of mid knob) are my go-tos for quick sculpting of lows and low mids.

If I'm on a brighter/thinner amp and/or cab, NULL keeps proximity active and I use it as a one-knob solution for adding low end dynamics into a rig (even then I rarely bring it to 1.0 or above). Either that or I bring proximity in a bit and sculpt lows and low mids as desired.

 

[Jason Scott]

YMMV, I choose NULL for everything and typically have proximity at or near zero. This gives me option to keep low end I want and reduce what I don't want. Amp GEQ and bass knob (and sometimes a bit of mid knob) are my go-tos for quick sculpting of lows and low mids.

If I'm on a brighter/thinner amp and/or cab, NULL keeps proximity active and I use it as a one-knob solution for adding low end dynamics into a rig (even then I rarely bring it to 1.0 or above). Either that or I bring proximity in a bit and sculpt lows and low mids as desired.

I'm using a Les Paul, and with the stock IR's I typically have to cut mids and lows. The proximity effect tends to add more thump, so unless I want 100Hz or below added to the tone, I don't use it. Before I started using the IR's I use now, I'd tend to use the amp or cab EQ but using a mic can save time over tweaking EQ, assuming you need to cut multiple frequencies.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

Actually, it's not.

One could run the Axe FX through and FRFR cab then put a mic on the cab and run it through FOH. Voila! You have now mic'd a mic'd signal.

Sure, this is the closest you can get to mic'ing a mic'ed signal, but it's still not the same, I think. What you are getting there is mic'ing a FRFR speaker that is playing a Mic'ed signal, not mic'ing a mic'ed signal. The "FRFR speaker" part" can still impact the sound, depending on the room and mic placement/rotation.

By the way, have you ever seen anoyone do that in a real studio? Seems whacky

 

[rrogers]

Sure, this is the closest you can get to mic'ing a mic'ed signal, but it's still not the same, I think. What you are getting there is mic'ing a FRFR speaker that is playing a Mic'ed signal, not mic'ing a mic'ed signal. The "FRFR speaker" part" can still impact the sound, depending on the room and mic placement/rotation.

By the way, have you ever seen anoyone do that in a real studio? Seems whacky

I've done it live, once, and not by choice. The in house sound guy at a convention center insisted on doing it. From what I could tell it sounded fine out front. I never understood his logic, and over the years I've quit worrying about craziness at those types of gigs.

I have found using the mic settings can provide quick fix when playing an unfamiliar room and/or through an unfamiliar PA.

 

[bread]

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

Thanks for this tip - it's awesome. I'm now a "null" convert.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

IR's already have the proximity.
The Proximity knob adds a fake proximity on top of that existing proximity...
Probably the best thing to do is capture your own IR, that would work for you as is...

 

[solo-act]

IR's already have the proximity.
The Proximity knob adds a fake proximity on top of that existing proximity...
Probably the best thing to do is capture your own IR, that would work for you as is...

Thanks for insight on that, and it's good advice for those seeking the "perfect" cab.

I still prefer NULL to making a custom IR for a few reasons, IMO, YMMV, etc.
- Capturing the "perfect" IR is something I'm not going to do
- Fake proximity (on zero) on pretty much everything is something I like
- I often use same cab on different amps and songs requiring different cab low end
- With NULL selected by default and fake proximity activated it's a fast one-knob solution for adding more low end dynamics.

 

[Jason Scott]

Thanks for insight on that, and it's good advice for those seeking the "perfect" cab.

I still prefer NULL to making a custom IR for a few reasons, IMO, YMMV, etc.
- Capturing the "perfect" IR is something I'm not going to do
- Fake proximity (on zero) on pretty much everything is something I like
- I often use same cab on different amps and songs requiring different cab low end
- With NULL selected by default and fake proximity activated it's a fast one-knob solution for adding more low end dynamics.

I agree. If you want more sub-100Hz, it doesn't matter whether it's added via the Proximity parameter or EQ.

 

[AtomicBlaze]

If you think that sounds good, select NULL. Otherwise you're doubling up on mic coloration (original IR mic or mic mix + the simulation you're adding).

The holy fuck Batman difference was added coloration, but mostly its the added feel that comes when proximity becomes active. If you "kill" mic simulation by choosing "none" you also kill proximity, which IMO, sucks the life out of the IR.

This was killer advice, this was probably the missing ingredient that I had been searching for. I wonder why NULL isn't the default it sounds so much better, this should be a sticky or something.

 

[mr_fender]

Null and None are both flat response, but Null has the proximity simulation active while None does not. Null with proximity set to zero = None.

 

[AtomicBlaze]

Null and None are both flat response, but Null has the proximity simulation active while None does not. Null with proximity set to zero = None.

You sure about that? I could have sworn there was a difference when switching between Null and None with proximity at zero.

 

[Jason Scott]

You sure about that? I could have sworn there was a difference when switching between Null and None with proximity at zero.

If Proximity is set to 0, there's no Proximity effect regardless whether Mic is set to Null, None or otherwise, which makes sense. You'll notice a difference when switching between Null and None if you have Proximity at a non-zero setting.

 

[AtomicBlaze]

If Proximity is set to 0, there's no Proximity effect regardless whether Mic is set to Null, None or otherwise, which makes sense. You'll notice a difference when switching between the two if you have Proximity at a non-zero setting.

It certainly makes sense, I will have to test it again later I was flipping back and forth between the 2 and they sounded different to me.