Fender Strats... Floating, Blocked or decked... Curious about opinions

If you had a six screw you could just max out the springs because the heads of the screws kept down. Knife edges need the right amount of tension from the strings and springs to keep them in place. Once you have set it won't need doing again unless you change string gauge.
 
I wonder how the up-pull bends change with different string gauges. That is likely the elephant in this equation....

Stringjoy 9-46 strings go 9, 12, 15 instead of 9, 11, 16 like Ernie Balls do. IIRC, when I set the G to pull up a minor 3rd, the B and E were close, but a littlevbit flat on their target notes - i.e., if tested against a tuner, the B pulled up to a little flat of C#, and the E pulled up a little flat of F. Will have to see if I can find some time to poke around with the Stringjoys on there and see what shakes loose....
 
I wonder how the up-pull bends change with different string gauges. That is likely the elephant in this equation....

The gauges don't really matter. You can test this by tuning two strings to the same note, like B down to match the G. They should change at about the same rate. If you're checking pitch carefully the second string might show slightly less change due to saddle position/height and amount of string between nut & tuner (for normal 6 inline headstock & non-locking nut).
 
The gauges don't really matter. You can test this by tuning two strings to the same note, like B down to match the G. They should change at about the same rate. If you're checking pitch carefully the second string might show slightly less change due to saddle position/height and amount of string between nut & tuner (for normal 6 inline headstock & non-locking nut).
No.
The thicker the string the more the pitch changes. Look at a Steinberger TT. in fact set a strat up for an experiment with the action and intonation position the same on all strings. They drop according to the diameter of the core and the dead string length . This is why you need calibrated strings for the TT to work correctly. You can't get it to transpose across the range with a string adapter or the standard set.
 
The thicker the string the more the pitch changes.

For the plain strings it's really the pitch that determines rate of change, not the string thickness. I'm only taking about the 3 plain strings. (Core to wrap mass ratio affects the wound strings.)

Try the simple test I described. Tune the B or even the high E down to G, the usual pitch of the 3rd string. (Ideally this would use a locking nut and equal saddle position/height but you can skip that part if you want.)

After retuning, do you think the 2nd or 1st string will change pitch more slowly than the 3rd string with bar use, because they're so much thinner? How much more slowly? Assuming the 3-2-1 semitone thing happened at G-B-E, do they still rise that amount and reach Bb, A, Ab together?

You need to make one attribute (pitch or string thickness) equal in a test to determine how much the other one actually matters.
 
For the plain strings it's really the pitch that determines rate of change, not the string thickness. I'm only taking about the 3 plain strings. (Core to wrap mass ratio affects the wound strings.)

Try the simple test I described. Tune the B or even the high E down to G, the usual pitch of the 3rd string. (Ideally this would use a locking nut and equal saddle position/height but you can skip that part if you want.)

After retuning, do you think the 2nd or 1st string will change pitch more slowly than the 3rd string with bar use, because they're so much thinner? How much more slowly? Assuming the 3-2-1 semitone thing happened at G-B-E, do they still rise that amount and reach Bb, A, Ab together?

You need to make one attribute (pitch or string thickness) equal in a test to determine how much the other one actually matters.
I've done this in the past. They don't stay in tune with each other if the travel is the same . Go and look at the patent of the TT . I have a TT2 here and if you where right I could swap a 9 high E for a 10 and retune it in the E position and the calibrations would remain correct . They aren't .
 
I have a TT2 here and if you where right I could swap a 9 high E for a 10 and retune it in the E position and the calibrations would remain correct . They aren't .

I'd be interested in seeing/hearing how much of a difference a gauge change like that makes. I looked through the TransTrem patent for a while but didn't see anything that specifically says a plain string gauge change requires recalibration.

I'm still certain that the tuning has more influence than string thickness, by far. You can't get TransTrem-style equal change on the plain strings of a normal guitar just by tuning three .010 strings to G-B-E, right?

To state it another way, if you dropped the new .010 (or the old .009) high E to D on the Steinberger, you'd need to make a much greater adjustment than simply swapping from .009 to .010 at E.
 
Enough for it to be out of tune in every position except park.
Look at the saddles default position on the cam of a TT2 . The cam is also offset and conical, then the calibration hight cam has a wide range of position to just cover 9,10,11 strings.
The TT shows just how much tiny differences here matter to the eventual note at the end of travel when the starting point is standard tuning. Getting these tones to correspond to each other is stretching the limits of what you can do with a bridge mechanically. The TT2 is way too expensive to make now and so sensitive to the slightest movements that it is long gone. The TT2 had a version that could be used on a regular guitar ,EVH had various Wolfgang models with one (never sold to the public.)
 
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Plain strings (.017 .013 .010) all tuned to G, locking nut, saddles at equal distance from neck. They all pretty much change pitch by the same amount when you use the bar. There's slight chorusing when raised a third, which would probably be reduced if the saddles were shimmed to equal heights. That would be a bit too much work for this test. (It's tough to avoid making the .010 go sharp when picking while they're dropped an octave.)

 
Too many variable here to test it. Put a 9 on a TT in the E position and tune and calibrate it ( strobe perfect) for one tone up and down (the TT locks in these positions .) Then put on a 10 and tune it to the E position it will be out in the other two. This is because strings of different mass change pitch at a different rate with the EXACT same movement of the trem . The TT is the ONLY trem that locks EXACTLY in a predetermined position and therefor the perfect vehicle to prove this . Also physics predict this and this experiment confirms it.
 
I forgot to mention that you need to use non calibrated strings and ensure they are the same length to avoid a dead string difference playing a part.
 
Also physics predict this and this experiment confirms it.

Physics actually predicts the gauge doesn't matter. I don't think you really understand the physics here. Try providing an example of any formula(s) that back up what you're saying. You've misspelled "height" twice so far in this thread.

I'm not doubting that you had to adjust the bridge after changing gauge. There are other factors that could explain having to make a slight adjustment after switching gauge.

That clip I made shows you can pretty much make the pitch change identical on 3 different gauges by tuning them to the same pitch. At G-B-E they'd be doing the 3-2-1 semitone pattern (more or less). I think post #24 above is a sufficient answer for Joe Bfstplk's question.
 
Sorry I was misunderstanding your point of the same pitch in reference to the pitch drop of three strings tuned in standard tuning .
You can get different formulations of string that have different tension at the same pitch . Are you suggesting that a different tension string will always detune by the same amount if the saddle is moved by the same amount in the same pitch? Carl wants 3semitones on the G a tone on the B and a semitone on the E when you pull back to the body. The thing is you get very close to this on any strat if you just get the G right with spring tension.
 
Are you suggesting that a different tension string will always detune by the same amount if the saddle is moved by the same amount in the same pitch? You can get different formulations of string that have different tension at the same pitch.

Different tension at a given pitch means the mass of the string changed. If the diameter didn't change, you're talking about a more or less dense material. That might have a different elasticity (Young's modulus is a better term here) from the previous one. Nylon vs. steel is one example. At the same pitch (and tension if you like, doesn't matter) you have to bend/stretch the nylon string a greater distance to reach a target pitch, because it's more elastic.

For different gauges of the same material (and Young's modulus), elasticity and required tension for a given pitch are tied together in a way that leaves initial pitch as the only factor in how much pitch change you'll get.

The thing is you get very close to this on any strat if you just get the G right with spring tension.

Yes, and with any (unwound) string gauges of the same material.
 
Fair enough but real world differences between brands (dead string length etc) mean that in practice you can't actually use this information other than to take advantage of the difference to get closer without changing the action or intonation, Hence the Carl Verhayen string set.
 
Since I've read that some people claim that Carl never states that the angled claw has anything to do with the intervals themselves, I managed to find these written instructions that came with his Dean Markley signature string set.

He states that when you adjust the intervals so that you get the minor third on g, full step on the b, and half step on the e, you WILL end up with an angled claw. Therefore attributing the angled claw to the specific intervals, which is incorrect. I think this settles the matter.

 
Since I've read that some people claim that Carl never states that the angled claw has anything to do with the intervals themselves, I managed to find these written instructions that came with his Dean Markley signature string set.

He states that when you adjust the intervals so that you get the minor third on g, full step on the b, and half step on the e, you WILL end up with an angled claw. Therefore attributing the angled claw to the specific intervals, which is incorrect. I think this settles the matter.


Yes it's total crap.
 
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