Fender Deluxe - Am I crazy?

[Deltones]

Is it just me, or the Fender models (at least the Deluxe and the Bassman) don't sound like they should? Got a basic patch going on, amp+cab. Drive at default (5.98), Bass, Mid, Treble all at 0, like in the manual for a Tweed Deluxe. Master cranked and every other values at default. Cab is a Redwire, but I tried with the stock and result is the same. Axe-Fx version is 9.0

Played with a Tele, what I expect is something at least remotely like these with the cranked master:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xhXKEWkrxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zucANgSV6Fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6F3N9GT60E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUHaEJ5pzUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFFapCSBYI

Very quickly done, but what I get is this:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=8391631

Basically sounds like the amp is at 3. Input is right in the recommended ballpark. Any idea as to what might be going on?

 

[steadystate]

I've used to own a Deluxe. Setting the Bass, Mid, and Treble all to zero is something I'd never do. I'm not surprised your not getting adequate gain with those settings.

 

[Radley]

Maybe so! My normal starting settings with my Deluxe are: Bass-4, Mids-6.8 (preset by Fender), Treble-7.

Zero for Bass & Treble is nothing but mids (definitely not my cup o' tea!)

 

[vinceh]

I thought the tweed model was based on the champ? Were you referring to the tweed amp model or the deluxe reverb model? (perhaps this is a tweed too)

 

[guitarnerdswe]

I thought the tweed model was based on the champ? Were you referring to the tweed amp model or the deluxe reverb model? (perhaps this is a tweed too)

The Tweed is a Fender Deluxe blackface.

 

[yek]

Wiki also contains some Fender sound tips.

 

[VegaBaby]

I think the Tweed model sounds very much like a Deluxe Reverb which it's supposed to be. The original doesn't have a mids knob, so leave it on 12 o'clock on the Axe (same with Presence). I usually take Bass down to around 9 o'clock and Treble a bit above 12.

 

[VegaBaby]

Also...all the clips you posted are a Tweed Deluxe. The Axe's model is a Deluxe Reverb. There've been a few discussions about which model exactly, but I can't remember.

 

[javajunkie]

Is it just me, or the Fender models (at least the Deluxe and the Bassman) don't sound like they should? Got a basic patch going on, amp+cab. Drive at default (5.98), Bass, Mid, Treble all at 0, like in the manual for a Tweed Deluxe. Master cranked and every other values at default. Cab is a Redwire, but I tried with the stock and result is the same. Axe-Fx version is 9.0

Played with a Tele, what I expect is something at least remotely like these with the cranked master:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xhXKEWkrxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zucANgSV6Fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6F3N9GT60E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUHaEJ5pzUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFFapCSBYI

Very quickly done, but what I get is this:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=8391631

Basically sounds like the amp is at 3. Input is right in the recommended ballpark. Any idea as to what might be going on?

The manual assumes you have your tone stack set to active, passive settings (which are default) will be much different.

 

[Deltones]

Also...all the clips you posted are a Tweed Deluxe. The Axe's model is a Deluxe Reverb. There've been a few discussions about which model exactly, but I can't remember.

Actually, if you go back to the manual, you'll see that the settings I posted are the settings that are recommended for a tweed Deluxe, not the Deluxe Reverb. Remember the "Vintage" tone stack? It was also used for the Tweed version of the amp. That's what I'm aiming for.

But even if I was using the Deluxe Reverb settings, you know that even these when cranked would destroy planets, and you could hear that it was destroying planets even recorded. I had a 68 DR that I had blackfaced at one point. I can attest to that.

Don't forget that on the clip I posted, the master is cranked. You know Fender don't sound like that when cranked, in the room or recorded, except maybe the SF Twin.

 

[Deltones]

The manual assumes you have your tone stack set to active, passive settings (which are default) will be much different.

Actually, I believe that for the Tweed Deluxe, the manual assumes that you'll have the Vintage tonestack. And besides jj, unless I'm mistaken, the tonestack should not affect the "Master" knob to a point where an amp that is cranked sounds like an amp that is on 3 no?

 

[Deltones]

I've used to own a Deluxe. Setting the Bass, Mid, and Treble all to zero is something I'd never do. I'm not surprised your not getting adequate gain with those settings.

Old Tweed Deluxe only had one knob, volume. You're probably talking about a Deluxe Reverb.

 

[VegaBaby]

Actually, I believe that for the Tweed Deluxe, the manual assumes that you'll have the Vintage tonestack. And besides jj, unless I'm mistaken, the tonestack should not affect the "Master" knob to a point where an amp that is cranked sounds like an amp that is on 3 no?

I haven't tried it with the Vintage tonestack. I've only used the passive, master around 9 (for non master amps) and if I crank up the Drive then I can easily get into Neal Young kinda tones. Actually, the amp almost sounds like it's exploding :lol:

 

[Deltones]

I haven't tried it with the Vintage tonestack. I've only used the passive, master around 9 (for non master amps) and if I crank up the Drive then I can easily get into Neal Young kinda tones. Actually, the amp almost sounds like it's exploding :lol:

Ah, but the difference is that you're cranking up the drive knob. The Deluxe (Tweed or Reverb) should do that with the master knob cranked only. Same goes for the Bassman.

I remember a while back when people were trying to get that Fender sound and sparkle. I believe a few of them ended up using the Dr Z model because the Fender model didn't cut it. I'll admit that on the Axe-Fx, my own perception of the Fender models is that they are its weakness. Never sounded right to me.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

I haven't tried it with the Vintage tonestack. I've only used the passive, master around 9 (for non master amps) and if I crank up the Drive then I can easily get into Neal Young kinda tones. Actually, the amp almost sounds like it's exploding :lol:

Ah, but the difference is that you're cranking up the drive knob. The Deluxe (Tweed or Reverb) should do that with the master knob cranked only. Same goes for the Bassman.

I remember a while back when people were trying to get that Fender sound and sparkle. I believe a few of them ended up using the Dr Z model because the Fender model didn't cut it. I'll admit that on the Axe-Fx, my own perception of the Fender models is that they are its weakness. Never sounded right to me.

With all due respect Deltones, you got it wrong. For non master volume amps, the master should be set to around 9.1-9.4 (Cliff chose to give us a little bit more room the play with), because the amp doesn't have an master volume. The drive then becomes your volume, just like the real amp.

Also, there is nothing about any specific settings in any of the manuals to Fender Deluxes, Tweed or Blackface.

 

[VegaBaby]

I haven't tried it with the Vintage tonestack. I've only used the passive, master around 9 (for non master amps) and if I crank up the Drive then I can easily get into Neal Young kinda tones. Actually, the amp almost sounds like it's exploding :lol:

Ah, but the difference is that you're cranking up the drive knob. The Deluxe (Tweed or Reverb) should do that with the master knob cranked only. Same goes for the Bassman.

I remember a while back when people were trying to get that Fender sound and sparkle. I believe a few of them ended up using the Dr Z model because the Fender model didn't cut it. I'll admit that on the Axe-Fx, my own perception of the Fender models is that they are its weakness. Never sounded right to me.

With all due respect Deltones, you got it wrong. For non master volume amps, the master should be set to around 9.1-9.4 (Cliff chose to give us a little bit more room the play with), because the amp doesn't have an master volume. The drive then becomes your volume, just like the real amp.

Also, there is nothing about any specific settings in any of the manuals to Fender Deluxes, Tweed or Blackface.

Exactly

Another 'trick' I found is that amps which in real life have no Presence control do indeed sound better when Presence is set to active, since IIRC 12 o'clock is pretty much flat for those models.

 

[mranonimouse]

With all due respect Deltones, you got it wrong. For non master volume amps, the master should be set to around 9.1-9.4 (Cliff chose to give us a little bit more room the play with), because the amp doesn't have an master volume. The drive then becomes your volume, just like the real amp.

Yep!!!

Drive is akin to 'volume' on the amps of yesteryear.

 

[Deltones]

With all due respect Deltones, you got it wrong. For non master volume amps, the master should be set to around 9.1-9.4 (Cliff chose to give us a little bit more room the play with), because the amp doesn't have an master volume. The drive then becomes your volume, just like the real amp.

Hmmm... I think you might be right. Doing some memory jogging here, and I think I remember something to that effect. Will check it out. Thanks for the reminder.

Also, there is nothing about any specific settings in any of the manuals to Fender Deluxes, Tweed or Blackface.

I'll try to find the relevant passage on this and post it when I'm back home.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

I just tried the Tweed again. Master at 9.17, bass at 9 o clock, treble at 3 o clock, drive at 5.98, presence and middle straight up and bright on.

There really isn't alot of gain in it. It's a nice cruncy sort of SRV tone.

 

[javajunkie]

The manual assumes you have your tone stack set to active, passive settings (which are default) will be much different.

Actually, I believe that for the Tweed Deluxe, the manual assumes that you'll have the Vintage tonestack. And besides jj, unless I'm mistaken, the tonestack should not affect the "Master" knob to a point where an amp that is cranked sounds like an amp that is on 3 no?

Nope those descriptions were written before there was a passive tone stack. I thought at one point Cliff stated that for the tone controls that didn't exist keep them at 12:00 for passive. Yes it would effect your entire input level to the poweramp section (actually to the preamp section as well on that amp).


to tonygtr:
yes there are statements about the deluxe in there

Tweed - Based on a small, low-power, tweed-covered amp. The original had no controls other
than volume. Set all tone controls to ‘0’ for authentic tone. Adjust as desired to venture into new
sonic territory. Our simulation has a bit more gain than the somewhat anemic original to allow
you to dial in a nice crunch. To recreate the original faithfully set the drive to about 6 and use
the Master as the volume.