Feeling a little frustrated and overwhelmed

Devilgear

Member
Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?
 
Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?
you must have a really crisp hearing. I mostly play on headphones - MDR7506 - and to me it sounds amazing. Through my mesa combo not quite so but I'll play with the Speaker Impedance Curve. Got some hints it might do the trick since in that case I'll use no cab block.
 
Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?
what speakers specifically? do the tweeters work properly? are the speakers pointing your ears or are they pointing toward a wall or something away from your head?

transitioning from full range speakers to headphones or IEMs for me has basically the same sound.

another aspect is that i do EQ any speaker or IEM that i use. there is no way possible that sound reproduction devices sound "perfect" as-is without any sort of EQ'ing for the room or for your own ears.

for your IEMs, play your favorite recorded song through your speakers. then play the same song through your IEMs. do the same things you don't like about the FM3 happen to the music too?

as an example, here is the EQ i use for my IEM send, using Shure SE215 (the low end $99 ones):

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i need to take a bunch of low end out, boost some high end for clarity and notch out some irritating frequencies. without this, i almost can't hear anything. once i did this, all sounds - my FM3, my partners guitars, our vocals, tracks, etc. - all sounded like they should and how they sound on other speakers.

i'm just sharing this detail as a view on how it can be done and what can actually make it easier to hear and sound better. this approach does exist and really works well. just many people don't know about it, think to do it, or don't have the gear to make it happen. in professional circles, EQ'ing each send is absolutely commonplace.

i think this is something many people are overlooking when it comes to doing live sound in general, as well as with modelers or anything direct. a speaker - regardless of price - doesn't sound "how you want it to" automatically, and the sound changes from room to room as well. that's the nice thing about IEMs though - once you EQ it for your ears, your ears don't change as drastically as different rooms do.

this sort of thing happens with real amps and cabs too, but we don't have many tools to fix this unless you put an EQ pedal in the loop. we've all played real amps and have our perfect Bass Mid Treble settings, and at one gig it always sounds great, and another gig it sounds bad at the same settings. it's because the room changes how speakers sound.

i understand that in most cases, there isn't an EQ available for the speakers or IEMs, but that's simply because mixers and other gear just don't include them. look at any professional sound system, small or large, and there is an EQ on every bus/send. because you really kinda have to. that's why i prefer digital mixers with it built-in, rather than buying a 31-band or whatever per channel.

all this to say that it's probably not the IEM or speaker's "fault" that they sound different to you, but rather that they probably do sound different inherently, and switching between them without being able to EQ things to your liking could be causing the issue.

but you can solve this in most cases on the FM3 itself! you can use the Global Graphic EQs to adjust your Out 1 and Out 2 sends separately! there's no way to save and recall settings unfortunately, but it should be quick to jot down or take a quick picture and set the few sliders before different gigs.

also if your IEM send is coming from the band's mixer for the full mix, see if it has an EQ on the send. if not, it might be worth it to get even a boss EQ pedal and put it between the mixer and your IEM so you can do some basic EQ.

i know this reply went off track a bit, but not all speakers are "FRFR" which means Full range AND Flat response - that 2nd one is unique. not all Full Range speakers are also flat response. most IEMs are also not Flat Response. that means if you're used to the response/curve of one speaker, then suddenly change to another speaker or IEMs that have a different response/curve, it will sound... different :)
 
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Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?
You're dialing in your tones at home volumes. When you turn it up to gig volume, there's too much treble. Dial in at gig volume. Problem solved. :)
 
You're dialing in your tones at home volumes. When you turn it up to gig volume, there's too much treble. Dial in at gig volume. Problem solved. :)
This.

If you aren’t able to dial in your tones in a band context, at band practice for example, try doing it with backing tracks. I’ll run backing tracks through Input 2 and play them through my FRFR at a substantial volume while dialing them in.

Take Fletcher-Munson out of the equation and you will get a clearer picture of how your tones really sound.

Also, try adding a High Cut in the Input EQ section on the Amp Block. I usually start at around 14k and adjust to taste.
 
By the way I'm using a pair of headrush 108s. They sound great and no problem with them at all. It's when I switch to headphones and IEMs is where I get trouble. The sound is very different to me. I do use output #1 mostly and run that into my mixer for recording, then headphones from there. Also headphones at the headphones output sounds not great to my ears. It just feels very processed to me and less open. Like I said going through the FRFR sounds amazing.
 
By the way I'm using a pair of headrush 108s. They sound great and no problem with them at all. It's when I switch to headphones and IEMs is where I get trouble. The sound is very different to me. I do use output #1 mostly and run that into my mixer for recording, then headphones from there. Also headphones at the headphones output sounds not great to my ears. It just feels very processed to me and less open. Like I said going through the FRFR sounds amazing.
Headphones and IEMs break the acoustic connection between speaker and guitar. The guitar is no longer swimming in or responding to its own sound. That can never sound or feel as lively as playing through a live speaker in the room.
 
Headphones and IEMs break the acoustic connection between speaker and guitar. The guitar is no longer swimming in or responding to its own sound. That can never sound or feel as lively as playing through a live speaker in the room.
Exactly that. A guitar reacts totally differently when played without any backline or floor monitor amplification; it's another world and you'll have to make choices. You'll never ever get the same kind of feedback, if any at all.
 
Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?

I hate headphones and iem... but they’re useful / requieres to practice / monitoring live so I have to live with that.

Use the Classic or modern enhancer at the end of the grid to simulate more “space”... or keep your frfr with minimum volume while playing with headphones. The leaked sound will give you a better experience (I know is not possible to do always due to volume restraints)
 
I use IEMs at practice, mostly to protect my ears from the drums. I still use a wedge and crank it quite a bit, to get the guitar sustain better. Especially if I do trem bar drops on chords (not divebombs), without the contribution from the wedge the chord dies out really fast.
 
Ok. So ive had the FM3 a few months now and damn do I love it. It just keeps getting better, but.... When I plug in my FRFRs I really dig the sound and its better than I knew it could be. The trouble is when I go direct or use headphones. It just sounds so transistery to me. Like its not even the same machine. I plan on using IEMs and its even worse with them. I know lots of you all go direct and love it. Am I doing something wrong?
You need to get the Blue Audio headphones that Cliff recommends. I have them and they sound great with Fractal stuff.
 
A few years back, someone posted about how lousy the Axe-Fx sounds through headphones. Turned out he was using a pair of in-flight earbuds he snatched off of an airplane. 😲

It really does matter what you listen through.
So I shouldn't try to monitor it through my Grandpa's AM radio?
 
I use the AX8 with a FRFR108 and I'm extremely happy with it - It's a lot more powerful than it looks and the unit itself it tiny.
It can seem too bassy/boomy IF you stand too close too it - The speaker is highly directional and if you ensure that the speaker is pointing directly at your head/ears it sounds great.
I'll probably buy a second one soon.

By the way I'm using a pair of headrush 108s. They sound great and no problem with them at all. It's when I switch to headphones and IEMs is where I get trouble. The sound is very different to me. I do use output #1 mostly and run that into my mixer for recording, then headphones from there. Also headphones at the headphones output sounds not great to my ears. It just feels very processed to me and less open. Like I said going through the FRFR sounds amazing.

From looking around there are some people mentioing the Headrush 108s can be a bit boomy and loud in the low end. Others were saying they turned down their lowest three GEQ sliders to compensate. So I'd suggest you try this to expand on what others have said:

  1. Test some of your favourite recordings through the headrush 108. See if they sound how you expect, or have too much bass. If they are too bassy, then odds are your FM3 does as well, and you're compensating but cutting it out of your tones. Naturally when using headphones/etc they'll be a bit thin now.
  2. Test your headphones/IEMs and see how your favorite music sounds through them. If they sound harsh and transistory then it's in the headphones.
  3. Any speaker in a room naturally has some reverb on it which smooths out the sound and makes it less forward. Headphones take that away, so most people use some amount of Room reverb in their IEM mix (and maybe the enhancer) to make it less harsh to inject directly into your eardrums
 
run that into my mixer for recording, then headphones from there.

If you are running your FRFR straight off the FM3 and the headphones/IEM off the mixer, then your issue likely resides in either the channel strip or the bus on the mixer.
 
As a near full time headphone user, who doesn't use backing tracks or records, so I don't have to worry about cutting through the mix, the things that have helped me the most are a Filter block set on Low Pass before or after the amp block, Enhancer(Modern) right before Reverb, and a Multiband Compressor at the very end set to the parameters on the Multiband Plexi preset. You'll most likey have to lower reverb quality from running out of CPU.
 
Lots of great ideas here Everyone. Thank you. I'm pretty much thinking it's my setup through the headphones or IEM. The FM3 sounds absolutely great through the 108s, so I know it's not there. My home setup goes, FM3-Tascam dp32-headphone amp-headphones. So even though it sounds good for recording normally, it sounds harsh this way. Recording guitars in the past I've done tube amps and mics, so I didn't have the same issues. I did use other pre amps and processors and come to think of it they too had the same issues, so I'm just learning now that I need to find another way. I'm going to keep experimenting until it's what I want
 
A few years back, someone posted about how lousy the Axe-Fx sounds through headphones. Turned out he was using a pair of in-flight earbuds he snatched off of an airplane. 😲

It really does matter what you listen through.
Slightly off topic: It really amazes me how some earbud manufacturers claim "extended bass" and "super hi def" and the earbuds don't even sound good for a phone call, much less any music. Can't tell you how many of those I've returned...

So I shouldn't try to monitor it through my Grandpa's AM radio?
That would sound good if you use the 1x4 Pig 160 IR ;-)
 
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