Feedback and Sustain

The Soundshell

Inspired
Hello,

My name is Ben, and I am Ultra user.

Before I bite the bullet and get on the waiting list for the 2, I am planning on saving up for the MFC101. I have my first Mission pedal ordered, and am currently waiting for my order to be processed.

With the newest features such as the new updates, double rigs on one patch, not to mention the new LONESTAR amp, the IR matching simply put this over the top compared to anything on the market.

My ONLY and I mean ONLY complaint is that, even though I get CLOSE, and mean CLOSE, the Feedback and Sustain available from a Tube rig has been unattainable. There are a few tricks, and patches on the Ultra that I have gathered from the Forum that get close, but no cigar as of yet.

I am referencing Joe Satriani - "Flying In a Blue Dream", or Dream Theater - "As I Am", and even Doom Metal Bands such as Electric Wizard, hell even Jimi Hendrix style Feedback and Sustain.

Is this possible on the 2?

If so I would like to hear comments from the collective wisdom of this forum in how to accomplish this.

I understand it's more of a in the room sound with the right pickups, right distance from the amp, etc......

My point to make, is that, if you can get this sound from the 2, there's nothing it can't do.

I would love to hear directly from the people working there such as Matman, Cliff, and those synonymous with the product, such as Levi, Jens, Yek, Scott P, and yes, even Jay.

Please post patches/presets, and sound examples please.

Thank You in advance -
Ben
 
You had hit the nail on the head, It is many factors. I was achieving feed back like what you are talking about with my ultra and continue to get it with my ii. With a wammy bar when I find that sweet spot I can hold a note forever and that is not an over exageration. For the record I only play FRFR straight to FOH and FOH feeds me back a signal into a floor wedge. My main patch now is just the treble plexi with the master almost on 10 and the drive down at like 1 or 2 into a stereo cab that is the same can twice with two different mics. With my ultra it was also the plexi with a boogie can and no mic.
 
this is a great ? as i have tried the search as well. my rig consist mostly into a mixer ,but i do have thoughts if i bought a power amp -which i did have at one time a 252vht and lent it to a friend for some world tour in which i never got it back-made me an offer i couldn't refuse! that being said , i think your talking about that sweet sustain -the wow factor stuff- and we have experimented with alot of rig combos( spkrs ,tube amps etc.) and i have acheived feedback and sustain at louder volumes but not at lower and for that fact it wasn't the sweet stuff. i do have axe2 and i had the ultra and my friends do as well and some of the feedback they have also achieved is not the sweet stuff either-and trust me it isn't their playing or style-i still get amazed at what people are doing with guitar these days- so they used some other devices before the axe2 but i would like to used just the axe2 itself for the sweet sustain. i hope this turns out to be a good thread -i would encourage someone to post a youthing on it-technique and such. good ?
thanks
 
I never had problems getting long sustain or nice feedback back when I had my standard.
Of course you had to play at a reasonable volume (the higher the better).
Sometimes though I would turn off the noise gate completely (eg lower gain stuff).
Also a correctly set up guitar makes a world of difference.
Btw, I was using the standard with an atomic active wedge and a 2x12" cab (ART SLA-2 for this cab).
 
I could get that with my Ultra and I still can with the II.

If you can't get that with the Ultra it might be the patch or the way you monitor.

If you can isolate your tube rig in another room, try micing it with an SM57, then run it through the same monitor system you use for your Ultra and see if you can get it to feedback like you like (with the amp in another room).

I will say its harder for me to feedback with wedges vs. amp and cab though. But for me, it's because I don't play with the wedges cranked up too much. If I crank the wedges, no problem. Also I use a separate isolated wedge just for guitar and don't run anything else in it. This made a big difference for me.

In my live room (aka garage :)) I stand in front of the FOH to practice and mess around. I've got 15" two ways on top of 2 18" sub boxes so the tops are pretty high up off the floor. It gets feedback galore running direct with just the factory patches.

Richard
 
If you're having trouble getting feedback make sure you double check your noise gate settings. Having noise gate turned on will make it very difficult or impossible to get feedback and sustain depending upon the settings you're using.

I have found that many people think it's hard to get sustain with the Axe-FX vs a tube amp due to this issue. They just don't realize that most patches have the noise gate turned on by default. Obviously, when plugging straight in to a real tube amp this is usually not the case.
 
I am so thankful for people replying to this thread. It makes my heart sing ( pun intended)

Would anyone be kind enough to make a video, or at least share a patch or soundcloud. I, as well as most others would be very grateful

Thanks
-Ben(OP)
 
I had no trouble getting nice feeback through the Axe2 even with the noise gate on..
edit: I was using a Marshall stereo power amp and a pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs..
and the volume was set to 'fun'

you just need to ensure that you are not gating too hard and that you have plenty of volume..

the general rule with gating is to use just about enough and no more..
 
I only gate for a special effect.

Otherwise I just live with the noise in between. I'm just not that picky about it.

I do remove it in post when I'm mixing though depending on what part of the song it's in. Sometimes it sounds better to me not to gate E GTR during a chorus just to add some wash.

Richard
 
I am so thankful for people replying to this thread. It makes my heart sing ( pun intended)

Would anyone be kind enough to make a video, or at least share a patch or soundcloud. I, as well as most others would be very grateful

Thanks
-Ben(OP)

Yes I will post a vid and a soundcloud but it will be monday or tuesday. I have 4 gigs this weekend and still have to setup my buddies ground control pro before I leave tonight....
Give me a few days.
 
No problem getting sustain feedback with the ultra or the 2. Other than volume, and noise gating, there is location. The your location in reference to the speakers can change how it feedback (tube or axefx). Some times using the phase reverse can help if your location is fixed. I can do a clip tonight.
 
make sure your guitar can hear it.
if you're wearing headphones or playing at talking levels, your guitar can't hear it or interact
 
Listen to Scott Peterson's JCM800 clip from the upcoming 3.0 firmware. The sustain at the end as it decays is amazing. As far as Flying in a Blue Dream type tone, I read Joe used a sustainer pup' for that. My axe II feeds back nicely with power amp and cab :)
 
I'm abother one of the guys who records direct with the axe2, and I was wondering the same thing about sustain...particularly how to best achieve it...I was wondering if anyone has used a synth block to facilitate this? Would it work without changing the tone/sound? Maybe using an expression pedal to cut it on/off?
 
For me the "magic sustain knob" is the input trim in the anp block. Crank it up and then adjust the drive for the amount of distortion you want. I can sustain/feedback for as long as I want, even at low volumes.
Mark
 
I'm abother one of the guys who records direct with the axe2, and I was wondering the same thing about sustain...particularly how to best achieve it...I was wondering if anyone has used a synth block to facilitate this? Would it work without changing the tone/sound? Maybe using an expression pedal to cut it on/off?

Bakerman made an Ultra preset that does this. I have done a couple of fae ebow ones, but there is no substituting for the guitar interaction that natural feedback (volume), sustainiac/ebows offer. Direct you can turn up the studio monitors and get feedback no problem.
 
Bakerman made an Ultra preset that does this. I have done a couple of fae ebow ones, but there is no substituting for the guitar interaction that natural feedback (volume), sustainiac/ebows offer. Direct you can turn up the studio monitors and get feedback no problem.

I just got it so I haven't messed with it much yet in terms of sustain...

Also what's sustainiac? Do I need it? I don't like the ebow personally...(edit...I just looked up the sustaniac...not sure that's right for me...I'd have to get rid of my bridge pickup...)

Do you have a link to those patches that you and Bakerman made? Do you have them for the Axe 2?
 
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Here's the feedback sim for standard/Ultra: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/ultra-std-preset-exchange/36469-harmonic-feedback-sim.html This was more about getting harmonic intervals at low volume, not actually increasing sustain time. The compressor settings (mainly envelope controlling mix) might be of interest because that can help sustain the end of a note's decay without affecting dynamics when playing above that level. It's probably not even important that it's a compressor block--you could have envelope turn up an extra mixer row or parallel volume block as signal level drops.
 
Here's the feedback sim for standard/Ultra: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/ultra-std-preset-exchange/36469-harmonic-feedback-sim.html This was more about getting harmonic intervals at low volume, not actually increasing sustain time. The compressor settings (mainly envelope controlling mix) might be of interest because that can help sustain the end of a note's decay without affecting dynamics when playing above that level. It's probably not even important that it's a compressor block--you could have envelope turn up an extra mixer row or parallel volume block as signal level drops.

Wow...this is very timely! I just posted a thread on the Axe II Patches section asking if this patch was ever converted to the Axe II. I never had this when I had the Ultra and sold it to get the II so I don't have a real frame of reference. I haven't seen it in the Axe II patches but may have missed it.
 
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