FCB1010 with uno question

[joegold]

I understand that with the uno mod that the FCB1010 can operate in a mode with 5 preset switches and 5 CC on/off switches. I hope that's correct.

When operating in this mode can the 5 CC switches be set up in such a way that when calling up a new preset their on/off state is not affected and their on/off state can be resent again to the new preset?

Eg.
I've got 2 AFX presets, #1 and #2, that both have a Compressor Block stored in bypass mode. The on/off state of the Comp Block is controlled via CC #62.
So, normally, when I simply recall either of these presets the Comp Block will be bypassed.

But let's say while playing preset #1 I turn the Comp Block on with my CC #62 programmed switch on the FCB, and when I then recall preset #2 I'd like the Comp block to stay on.
This would require the FCB to be able to keep the state of this switch on as I change presets, and also to resend the CC 'on' command right after the new preset has beem recalled.

Can the FCB w/uno be programmed to do this?

Thanks for any info.

 

[DieSchmalle]

It is even possible to allow some stomp boxes to stay and some to change.

Choose between three states: On, off, no change.

You can download the editor here: http://www.ripwerx.com/

Since it also runs without the fcb1010, you take a look and preview it to see what it can do.

 

[joegold]

It is even possible to allow some stomp boxes to stay and some to change.

Choose between three states: On, off, no change.

You can download the editor here: http://www.ripwerx.com/

Since it also runs without the fcb1010, you take a look and preview it to see what it can do.

thanks. i'll try the editor.
but i'm on a mac running leopard and it says that it won't work on leopard.
but i'll try it later anyway.

 

[DieSchmalle]

But let's say while playing preset #1 I turn the Comp Block on with my CC #62 programmed switch on the FCB, and when I then recall preset #2 I'd like the Comp block to stay on.
This would require the FCB to be able to keep the state of this switch on as I change presets, and also to resend the CC 'on' command right after the new preset has beem recalled.

Can the FCB w/uno be programmed to do this?

Thanks for any info.

"No change" does mean that the FCB does not send any change messages. It does not resend CC's - but it would be a cool feature for the future!

 

[joegold]

It does not resend CC's - but it would be a cool feature for the future!

Ah. OK then thanks.
So it can't do this particular thing that I've been asking about.
Still seems like a good cheap footcontroller solution though.

 

[tubetonez]

It does not resend CC's - but it would be a cool feature for the future!

Ah. OK then thanks.
So it can't do this particular thing that I've been asking about.
Still seems like a good cheap footcontroller solution though.

I have used the stomp box mode with UNO FCB, set to NC. It does "re" send the current state when you change patches. Say with two patches, both have Stomp 1 assigned to a drive block. If you kick it on for one patch, then change to the other it will send the "on" state in the "no change" mode. Same with the expression pedals it will send the current position - as I've found embarassing when I'm halfway through a song and realize I'd inadvertently kicked the pedal on and the patch had wah enabled. That's my main gripe about the FCB, it's nice having the two pedals but it's easy to bump them or on a "bouncy" stage they get moved.

 

[joegold]

It does not resend CC's - but it would be a cool feature for the future!

Ah. OK then thanks.
So it can't do this particular thing that I've been asking about.
Still seems like a good cheap footcontroller solution though.

I have used the stomp box mode with UNO FCB, set to NC. It does "re" send the current state when you change patches. Say with two patches, both have Stomp 1 assigned to a drive block. If you kick it on for one patch, then change to the other it will send the "on" state in the "no change" mode. Same with the expression pedals it will send the current position - as I've found embarassing when I'm halfway through a song and realize I'd inadvertently kicked the pedal on and the patch had wah enabled. That's my main gripe about the FCB, it's nice having the two pedals but it's easy to bump them or on a "bouncy" stage they get moved.

Well you and DieShmalle seem to disagree.

So who's actually right?

 

[ossandust]

Well you and DieShmalle seem to disagree.
So who's actually right?

Here's how I programmed it in UnO :
when switching patches while in "stompbox mode"
- the "ON" message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "ON" for that patch
- the "OFF" message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "OFF" for that patch
- NO message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "NoChange" for that patch
For the expression pedals:
no message with current pedal state is sent when switching patches.

Regards,
Xavier

 

[rdomain]

I've found the FCB1010 a very good and affordable option for the Fractal. I also use the UNO chip. The only headache is that I'm on a Mac as well so I did all the programming manually. A bit daunting at first but with the charts in front of you, no probs. There is an editor for the Mac but it's not free
Otherwise just run bootcamp or parallels etc

 

[joegold]

OK. this is getting even more confusing.

- NO message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "NoChange" for that patch

So when you change a patch the state of the "No message" programmed switches is not changed.
So if switch #5 was engaged in the previous patch (with led on), when you change to an new patch it will not change in that its led will still be on. Right so far?
But my question is whether or not switch #5 will *resend its on status* over MIDI for the new patch.

For the expression pedals:
no message with current pedal state is sent when switching patches.

Can this be toggled so that the current pedal state *is* sent when switching patches?

Unless the Axe actually looks for exp pedal states after a preset change (which I've been led to believe it doesn't do) this an essential feature for a footcontroller to have so that we can seamlessly control things like volume.

My ADA MXC w/exp pedal assigned to CC#7 controlling the Vol Block in all my Axe presets works great.
When I change presets the volume of the new preset is based on the pedal's current position, just like I want.
If the MXC didn't resend the pedal position after the program change message then the Axe itself would have to look at the pedal position in order for this to be working.

If it *is* the axe itself that's looking for the pedal position in the new preset then maybe it would be possible to have a firmware update that allows for the Axe to look at other CC messages, like pedal on/off states after a presxet change, and then we wouldn't have to worry whether or not our footcontrollers could do this.

Hope I'm still making sense at this point.

 

[ossandust]

OK. this is getting even more confusing.

- NO message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "NoChange" for that patch

So when you change a patch the state of the "No message" programmed switches is not changed.
So if switch #5 was engaged in the previous patch (with led on), when you change to an new patch it will not change in that its led will still be on. Right so far?
But my question is whether or not switch #5 will *resend its on status* over MIDI for the new patch.

Sorry if I confused you, Joe. With "NO message is sent" I indeed meant: no MIDI message is sent, so the stompbox status will not be resent over MIDI.

For the expression pedals:
no message with current pedal state is sent when switching patches.

Can this be toggled so that the current pedal state *is* sent when switching patches?

No, that's not possible. At the time when UnO features were being gathered, this didn't seem to be a desired feature. But I agree I have seen the question come up a few times later on.
When I designed the Gordius extension module, I expected that I would need to add this feature. But after discussing this with several users I ended up doing the opposite... I added a customizable "engage value": after switching presets, the pedals don't send any messages until they reach this engage value. I'm currently just waiting for the first Gordius user requesting the pedal state to be sent when switching patches.

 

[Sebastian]

Unless the Axe actually looks for exp pedal states after a preset change (which I've been led to believe it doesn't do) this an essential feature for a footcontroller to have so that we can seamlessly control things like volume.

The AFx does "remember" the values of the external controllers globally. That means, if you had patch 1 active, lowered the volume with a pedal to e.g. 50% and
then switch to patch 2, the volume will be and remain at 50%. Same holds true for every other use (Wah, Whammy, ...).
Not need for expression pedals to resend their current value.

Seb

 

[joegold]

Unless the Axe actually looks for exp pedal states after a preset change (which I've been led to believe it doesn't do) this an essential feature for a footcontroller to have so that we can seamlessly control things like volume.

The AFx does "remember" the values of the external controllers globally. That means, if you had patch 1 active, lowered the volume with a pedal to e.g. 50% and
then switch to patch 2, the volume will be and remain at 50%. Same holds true for every other use (Wah, Whammy, ...).
Not need for expression pedals to resend their current value.

Seb

Hmm.
OK. Thanks.

Before I bought my Ultra, I made some queries here about this manner of stuff.
I was led to believe that in order for this type of thing to work that the footcontroller itself had to resend the CC pedal info after each preset change. So I just assumed that my ADA MXC was just doing that, because everything seemed to work with previously owned multi FX units.
[But I've always known that the ADA does not resend the more simple CC on/off commands.]

When I asked about whether the AFX could be set up so that CC commands of the on/off variety could be updated after a preset change (as in the compressor example I gave earlier) I was told "no" but that it was a relatively simple thing to do from the footcontroller with many of today's more sophisticated footcontrollers.

Now I'm left wondering if it can be done at all.

 

[joegold]

OK. this is getting even more confusing.

- NO message is sent for all stompboxes which are defined as "NoChange" for that patch

So when you change a patch the state of the "No message" programmed switches is not changed.
So if switch #5 was engaged in the previous patch (with led on), when you change to an new patch it will not change in that its led will still be on. Right so far?
But my question is whether or not switch #5 will *resend its on status* over MIDI for the new patch.

Sorry if I confused you, Joe. With "NO message is sent" I indeed meant: no MIDI message is sent, so the stompbox status will not be resent over MIDI.

For the expression pedals:
no message with current pedal state is sent when switching patches.

Can this be toggled so that the current pedal state *is* sent when switching patches?

No, that's not possible. At the time when UnO features were being gathered, this didn't seem to be a desired feature. But I agree I have seen the question come up a few times later on.
When I designed the Gordius extension module, I expected that I would need to add this feature. But after discussing this with several users I ended up doing the opposite... I added a customizable "engage value": after switching presets, the pedals don't send any messages until they reach this engage value. I'm currently just waiting for the first Gordius user requesting the pedal state to be sent when switching patches.

So, you're the guy who designed the Little giant stuff and the uno?
Nice to meet you.

Well, consider me to the first guy to ask for this sort of thing (assuming you've been following my comments).

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I just realized how to make this work. It takes a little explaining, but, after you've thought about it, it is extremely straightforward. This relies on Axe-Fx internal capabilities only, i.e., it will work with any MIDI foot controller.

You can assign up to 8 external controllers to outside CC# control. The important thing to remember is that these controllers remember the last value that was transmitted to them. Each one can be assigned to a different CC# corresponding to a stompbox-mode (FCB10120 Uno) or IA (most other controllers) button on your controller.

Instead of assigning your effects bypass CC#s globally, assign them to modifiers in each preset ("Bypass Mode"). Then assign the modifier to the appropriate controller (External 1 - External 8), which is in turn assigned (globally) to the appropriate CC#. When you toggle an effect on in one preset, the controller value that did so will remain in effect - entirely within the Axe-Fx - after a preset change. If the same effect is assigned to the same controller in the new preset, the effect will then be toggled "on" when you select the preset.

I see no reason this won't work, and it should only take a few minutes to try out. I prefer my presets to default to all effects off, so I'm not likely to be checking this out anytime soon.

 

[joegold]

I just realized how to make this work. It takes a little explaining, but, after you've thought about it, it is extremely straightforward. This relies on Axe-Fx internal capabilities only, i.e., it will work with any MIDI foot controller.

You can assign up to 8 external controllers to outside CC# control. The important thing to remember is that these controllers remember the last value that was transmitted to them. Each one can be assigned to a different CC# corresponding to a stompbox-mode (FCB10120 Uno) or IA (most other controllers) button on your controller.

Instead of assigning your effects bypass CC#s globally, assign them to modifiers in each preset ("Bypass Mode"). Then assign the modifier to the appropriate controller (External 1 - External 8), which is in turn assigned (globally) to the appropriate CC#. When you toggle an effect on in one preset, the controller value that did so will remain in effect - entirely within the Axe-Fx - after a preset change. If the same effect is assigned to the same controller in the new preset, the effect will then be toggled "on" when you select the preset.

I see no reason this won't work, and it should only take a few minutes to try out. I prefer my presets to default to all effects off, so I'm not likely to be checking this out anytime soon.

I'll try this later Jay, thanks.
No time right now and my AFX is in a studio until tomorrow.

Problem is that my current footcontroller actually defeats any CC on/off switches it sends whenever it sends a new program change.
That's why I'm looking at possibly using the FCB instead.

 

[LAYGO]

I just realized how to make this work. It takes a little explaining, but, after you've thought about it, it is extremely straightforward. This relies on Axe-Fx internal capabilities only, i.e., it will work with any MIDI foot controller.

You can assign up to 8 external controllers to outside CC# control. The important thing to remember is that these controllers remember the last value that was transmitted to them. Each one can be assigned to a different CC# corresponding to a stompbox-mode (FCB10120 Uno) or IA (most other controllers) button on your controller.

Instead of assigning your effects bypass CC#s globally, assign them to modifiers in each preset ("Bypass Mode"). Then assign the modifier to the appropriate controller (External 1 - External 8), which is in turn assigned (globally) to the appropriate CC#. When you toggle an effect on in one preset, the controller value that did so will remain in effect - entirely within the Axe-Fx - after a preset change. If the same effect is assigned to the same controller in the new preset, the effect will then be toggled "on" when you select the preset.

I see no reason this won't work, and it should only take a few minutes to try out. I prefer my presets to default to all effects off, so I'm not likely to be checking this out anytime soon.

What happens say . . . when you assign the same controller to different modifiers?

What you've also described is a way to have a "variable" stompbox. A single pedal control different effects in different patches. Say you really only use 4 global effects, that 5th one can be any effect in any patch.

Cool, this is how I have been thinking about it & good to see it confirmed.

 

[joegold]

OK Jay.

I just tried your idea and it appears to work.
I even think I understand why it works.

Like I said before, my current footcontroller actually defaults its CC on/off switches to 'off' whenever the user sends a program change, so I'll still need another footcontroller in order to make use of this feature of the Axe's 'External' controller routines.

The way I had to check this out then was to use a CC on/off switch to un-bypass an effect block using the Bypass Mode parameter (I used the Drive Block) and then, rather than using my footcontroller to call up another preset (with the Drive Block programmed the same way), I did it via the Axe's Value wheel in Recall Mode.
It worked great with a Drive Block.

But the trouble is that the main effect that I want to be able to do this with is the compressor, and it doesn't have a Bypass Mode parameter.

Bummer, eh?

 

[joegold]

OK Jay.

I just tried your idea and it appears to work.
I even think I understand why it works.

Like I said before, my current footcontroller actually defaults its CC on/off switches to 'off' whenever the user sends a program change, so I'll still need another footcontroller in order to make use of this feature of the Axe's 'External' controller routines.

The way I had to check this out then was to use a CC on/off switch to un-bypass an effect block using the Bypass Mode parameter (I used the Drive Block) and then, rather than using my footcontroller to call up another preset (with the Drive Block programmed the same way), I did it via the Axe's Value wheel in Recall Mode.
It worked great with a Drive Block.

But the trouble is that the main effect that I want to be able to do this with is the compressor, and it doesn't have a Bypass Mode parameter.

Bummer, eh?

And thanks again for the idea.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

OK Jay.

I just tried your idea and it appears to work.

Good. I couldn't see a logical reason that it woudn't.

But the trouble is that the main effect that I want to be able to do this with is the compressor, and it doesn't have a Bypass Mode parameter.

Bummer, eh?

Dang. I never noticed that before. Every other effect that I use has that. Wonder why that is? Cliff, is this something that can be changed in a new firmware revision?