FC18 and FC21

[vangrieg]

Let them make 6 and 12 first, so far those aren’t ready either.

 

[Mouzart]

Are there per-scene footswitches? If so that would mean that the footswitches are assignable per scene and that increases the number of footswitches per preset without the need of tapdancing.

 

[edo]

I'd be more than happy with an "fc16", in a 2 x 8 layout.

 

[Rocket Brother]

Let them make 6 and 12 first, so far those aren’t ready either.

Sure

My comments are not criticism of the controllers that FAS has announced, it's more my "wish list item", Cliff @FractalAudio can take it for what it is - a wish and a free focus group interview - seems there are quite a few of us who would really like to buy a FAS controller, but rationally or irrationally would prefer a different format of said controller and are contemplating whether other controllers would suit us more than the FC-6 and FC-12.

I realize that we might not know or grasp all of what the FAS FC series can do, but being familiar with the LF+12+ series midi FC's and the Helix switching as well, I think I know that 3 or 4 rows work better for my workflow.

I want a FAS FC, but ideally a 3 or 4 row one to reduce/minimize paging during live performance, that's all.
I'll (try to) get off Cliffs case now and see what FAS brings to market

 

[666was999]

For now I plan to go on using the MFC 101 for basic preset switching and some 'send-only' midi functions and then adding an FC 6 or 12 for some two way channel/scene switching.
That will give me 23 or 29 switches to step on...should be enough
I hope the midi integration of the III will allow me to do that.

 

[biskitboy]

Are there per-scene footswitches? If so that would mean that the footswitches are assignable per scene and that increases the number of footswitches per preset without the need of tapdancing.

That is a great idea! From the glimpse we see now, it appears to be per-preset. But per-scene would be even better.

 

[Spidouz]

Sure

My comments are not criticism of the controllers that FAS has announced, it's more my "wish list item", Cliff @FractalAudio can take it for what it is - a wish and a free focus group interview - seems there are quite a few of us who would really like to buy a FAS controller, but rationally or irrationally would prefer a different format of said controller and are contemplating whether other controllers would suit us more than the FC-6 and FC-12.

I realize that we might not know or grasp all of what the FAS FC series can do, buy being familiar with the LF+12+ series midi FC's and the Helix switching as well, I think I know that 3 or 4 rows work better for my workflow.

I want a FAS FC, but ideally a 3 or 4 row one to reduce/minimize paging during live performance, that's all.
I'll (try to) get off Cliffs case now and see what FAS brings to market

That's the exact purpose of this thread.

I'm not trying to tell Cliff and FractalAudio what to do. I don't think they need me for that. However, personally, I know for sure that the FC6 and FC12 won't work for me, regardless how great they will be (and I'm sure they will be great with new features and integration, that's also why I would love them over let's says a Mastermind GT22). But it's either not enough switch for one single unit, or multiple unit make it unpractical (for me) from a footprint point of view. Does it make that's a general rule for everyone? Absolutely NOT!

That's also why I really insist every time to say "personally", or "for me", etc... However, I was wondering if I was the only on thinking that way, and that's why I did this poll to check with the rest of the Axe-FX III users and potential future user (like myself) to see what form factor would they like for their FC. That's it...

Then, Cliff can consider or not the poll and the given reasons here and he will decide if it's relevant or not for his business. And if he does it, I will for sure buy a larger Fractal FC... if he doesn't, well I guess I won't buy it and I will have to go with something else (even if in the end, it means it will be less performant and less integrated with the Axe-FX III... that would be sad, thought).

I think that's the best we can do in a free market based economical system.

PS: Sometimes, we also have to understand that not everything is done "for us". For instance, personally, I don't care if the Axe-FX has 512 presets, I would be probably fine with 32, maybe even less... But I won't talk down anyone that would want more than 32 presets, because I fully understand there's people out there that would need them. It doesn't make any of us "wrong". So always keep that in mind when people are "asking" for features you may don't need. My 2¢

 

[Spidouz]

I'd be more than happy with an "fc16", in a 2 x 8 layout.

Somehow, I wonder why Fractal came with FC6 and FC12... why not doing a 2x3, 2x4 and 2x6 models... it would allow already much more configurations.

- You want 2x6, you could use two 2x3.
- You want 2x7, you could use a 2x3 with a 2x4
- You want 2x8, you could use two 2x4.
- You want 2x9, you could use a 2x3 with a 2x6
- You want 2x10, you could use a 2x4 with a 2x6
- You want 2x11, you could use a 2x3 and two 2x4
- You want 2x12, you could use two 2x6
etc..etc...

Since it's said that up to 4 FC can be use at the time, it would allow people to really make their choice of the kind of footprint they want... mainly if then associated with the Expansion models are described in a previous post. But again, I'm just thinking out loud here... YMMV

 

[Alexis]

Honestly, the best form factor I've experienced is the Gordius Big Little Giant.

View attachment 44775

The combination of staggered buttons and putting some on an angle really helps with not hitting the wrong button.

Edit:

Apparently the button layout is mapped to the black and white keys of a keyboard, which is weedy there is some unused "space" on the upper row.

I had this one for a long time. the form factor is good but build quality was not really good and the editor was really shitty.
But the angle really helped but i would have made the upper row on a slight angle too because it felt not that great if it is that flat.

 

[bondsong]

Using my MFC live while singing and playing I actually find myself only using the first row of buttons, maybe the second row. I just don’t have time to look at all those other rows. I thought I would use them but they’re mostly wasted on me. My next controller will have less buttons. I really need something I can use without looking at it mostly.

 

[unix-guy]

I had this one for a long time. the form factor is good but build quality was not really good and the editor was really shitty.
But the angle really helped but i would have made the upper row on a slight angle too because it felt not that great if it is that flat.

The editor itself I liked, but some of the methods are little less than intuitive! I emailed Xavier many times for explanations when I couldn't get things working... and I am a very experienced tech guy!

I actually really liked that you could use the editor offline and it has an "emulator" so you can play with settings without even having a device attached.

 

[krizz]

So, FC12 is enough ... but to be honest - FC18 or FC21 could be better, for me of course.

In FC12 there are conectors for 4 external switches and 4 expression pedals.
FC12 + 4 extarnal switches makes total 16 switches.

Personally, I will not use 4 expression pedals, only 1 for volume, maybe second for whammy.

I would be great function to be able to use free expression pedals connectors for the next switches.
So, if I need only 2 expression pedals, this allows to connect 4 + 4 switches. FC12 + 8 = 20.
And, if I need none expression pedal connected to FC, than 4 + 8 = 12. FC12 + 12 = 24.

There are 2 expression pedals connectors on Axe FX III, too.

Another way to increase number of available switches is special expender. Special - it means not second FC12 or FC6.
It could be 1 row of 6 switches witch LCD stripes. There is no main LCD need.
Expander like thist could be put above FC12 and might work with (and even look) like FC18.
Plus external switches.

Of course, it's just an idea only

 

[ipressthebutton]

I have been using the AX8/FX8 and haven't really needed any more switches. I think I'm going to be good with the FC12.

 

[Alexis]

So, FC12 is enough ... but to be honest - FC18 or FC21 could be better, for me of course.

In FC12 there are conectors for 4 external switches and 4 expression pedals.
FC12 + 4 extarnal switches makes total 16 switches.

Personally, I will not use 4 expression pedals, only 1 for volume, maybe second for whammy.

I would be great function to be able to use free expression pedals connectors for the next switches.
So, if I need only 2 expression pedals, this allows to connect 4 + 4 switches. FC12 + 8 = 20.
And, if I need none expression pedal connected to FC, than 4 + 8 = 12. FC12 + 12 = 24.

There are 2 expression pedals connectors on Axe FX III, too.

Another way to increase number of available switches is special expender. Special - it means not second FC12 or FC6.
It could be 1 row of 6 switches witch LCD stripes. There is no main LCD need.
Expander like thist could be put above FC12 and might work with (and even look) like FC18.
Plus external switches.

Of course, it's just an idea only

but you don't have any status leds on those switches! Don't you?

 

[krizz]

but you don't have any status leds on those switches! Don't you?

OK, I didn't know that the MFC 101 external switches can't show their status via led, but FC is a whole new device and by the time we there isn't full specification or owner manual, I hope that ext sw in FC will be able to work with status led.

 

[unix-guy]

OK, I didn't know that the MFC 101 external switches can't show their status via led, but FC is a whole new device and by the time we there isn't full specification or owner manual, I hope that ext sw in FC will be able to work with status led.

Almost certainly not... External switches are just connected via TRS cables, so how would that be done?

 

[krizz]

Almost certainly not... External switches are just connected via TRS cables, so how would that be done?

Footswitch is connected to my amp via TRS cable (stereo), I can change 2 channels and turn on / off the reverb. And there are two leds on it which show actual status of channels and the reverb. And it works.

Another example is RJM Music Mastermind GT. This is from manual, page 25:

External Switches

The Mastermind GT supports up to four external switches. These can be used to add switches to remote locations, to
add different types of switches for specialized functions like tap tempo, or simply to increase the number of available
switches.

There are two external switch jacks on the rear of the Mastermind GT labeled “Switch 1/2” and “Switch 3/4". Each jack
can take a single switch or a double switch with a TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug. A single switch should use a TRS plug with
the switch connected to the tip and ground, and the ring conductor unconnected to anything. External switches need
to be momentary and normally open. Latching switches will not work correctly. If an LED is wired in parallel with the switch
with the cathode connected to the shield of the TRS connector, the Mastermind GT will light the LED when the switch is on. Setting the external switches works the same way as setting a button on the controller. You use the Edit Buttons function to edit the button parameters, as described in the Editing Buttons section. Just press the external switch when prompted to select a button. External switches can change from page to page just like a normal button, so please be aware of which button page you’re on when editing external switches.​

I don't own the MFC 101 but I belive this is impossible with it.

 

[unix-guy]

Footswitch is connected to my amp via TRS cable (stereo), I can change 2 channels and turn on / off the reverb. And there are two leds on it which show actual status of channels and the reverb. And it works.

Another example is RJM Music Mastermind GT. This is from manual, page 25:

External Switches

The Mastermind GT supports up to four external switches. These can be used to add switches to remote locations, to
add different types of switches for specialized functions like tap tempo, or simply to increase the number of available
switches.

There are two external switch jacks on the rear of the Mastermind GT labeled “Switch 1/2” and “Switch 3/4". Each jack
can take a single switch or a double switch with a TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug. A single switch should use a TRS plug with
the switch connected to the tip and ground, and the ring conductor unconnected to anything. External switches need
to be momentary and normally open. Latching switches will not work correctly. If an LED is wired in parallel with the switch
with the cathode connected to the shield of the TRS connector, the Mastermind GT will light the LED when the switch is on. Setting the external switches works the same way as setting a button on the controller. You use the Edit Buttons function to edit the button parameters, as described in the Editing Buttons section. Just press the external switch when prompted to select a button. External switches can change from page to page just like a normal button, so please be aware of which button page you’re on when editing external switches.​

I don't own the MFC 101 but I belive this is impossible with it.

Interesting... But that means those devices are sending power over the cable, too... Unless your switches have a battery? Because an LED needs power.

 

[brianv4]

Please, don't pay attention to the bad photoshop skills (I just did that quickly to explain what I meant in previous messages), but here's how I could imagine a FC12 with a FC12EX (Expansion), where we could just "slide" one into each other, but some screws and make it "one".

THAT... would probably already work way better for me.

View attachment 44843

No offense, looks like a foot stompin' nightmare. 3 rows maybe

 

[DLC86]

Interesting... But that means those devices are sending power over the cable, too... Unless your switches have a battery? Because an LED needs power.

Every TRS footswitch/exp pedal connector sends power over the cable, voltage is what the device needs to "read" the state or position of the pedal.
Potentially even an axe fx or ax8 could power up a led but I don't know if it supplies enough current, without someone from FAS giving us this info we risk to damage it doing so.