Wish FC Momentary Scene / Channel Toggle

State of Epicicity

State of Epicicity

Fractal Fanatic
I'd like to request a way to toggle between scenes and channels in the Axe FX III via the FC12 or FC6.

I thought of two potential ways to implement this:

Momentary Tap and Hold: To allow a function in which both the Tap and Hold functions are engaged, with the Hold function in Switch Up mode, but with the Tap function remaining enabled, for this Momentary Tap and Hold idea essentially to function the same way a CS Momentary switch would. In this scenario you'd be able to program the Tap function to go to Scene 2 only while you're pressing down on the footswitch, and it would revert to Scene 1, e.g., when you release the footswitch.

CS Scene and Channel Control: To allow a function to program a CS to select one scene or channel for the switch down value, and another scene or channel for the switch up value, similar to the programming already in place for CS MIDI, in which, rather than considering the CS as merely on or off only, it becomes a parameter that holds two different values.

Thanks for considering this, and thanks for all of your continued work on this already unbelievable tool.
 
Momentary scene switch would be great for short lead fills and such but How would it know if it is a tap, hold, or a momentary, if tap and hold are engaged? would it switch momentary while holding for the hold function release?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rex
paranoid said:
Momentary scene switch would be great for short lead fills and such but How would it know if it is a tap, hold, or a momentary, if tap and hold are engaged? would it switch momentary while holding for the hold function release?
Click to expand...

In my idea for a Momentary Tap and Hold, you'd have the Hold function programmed to the Switch Up value, meaning it would not function as a normal Hold at all; instead, the Hold function would only engage whenever you lift up on the switch, essentially acting similarly to the release value of a traditional momentary switch. With this scenario, time is not a factor, so you can press the switch as short or as long as you'd like, and the Switch Up function eliminates the timing that normally occurs with the Hold function. :)
 
paranoid said:
Momentary scene switch would be great for short lead fills and such but How would it know if it is a tap, hold, or a momentary, if tap and hold are engaged? would it switch momentary while holding for the hold function release?
Click to expand...
This. If you have a hold function, the footswitch has to wait to find out if you're engaging the hold function. During that time, it can't execute the tap function. That's why Momentary only works if there's no hold function assigned to the switch.
 
State of Epicicity said:
In my idea for a Momentary Tap and Hold, you'd have the Hold function programmed to the Switch Up value, meaning it would not function as a normal Hold at all; instead, the Hold function would only engage whenever you lift up on the switch, essentially acting similarly to the release value of a traditional momentary switch. With this scenario, time is not a factor, so you can press the switch as short or as long as you'd like, and the Switch Up function eliminates the timing that normally occurs with the Hold function. :)
Click to expand...
You just described a momentary switch. ;) There's no hold function involved.
 
What you are describing is a momentary scene toggle switch. There'd be no hold function involved.

You'd either need to pre-define which scenes it toggle between or you'd need an new function to toggle back to the previous scene. I think there's a wish list item for the latter.
 
Rex said:
This. If you have a hold function, the footswitch has to wait to find out if you're engaging the hold function. During that time, it can't execute the tap function. That's why Momentary only works if there's no hold function assigned to the switch.
Click to expand...

Not if you engage the Switch Up function; that eliminates the time factor. Here's how it's described in the FC manual, on page 28:

"Changing this setting from its default
value of “TIMEOUT” to “SWITCH UP” allows you to modify the normal switch
behavior so that the Hold function only fires when the switch is released. In
this mode, as long as you continue holding the switch, nothing happens. Then,
at the precise moment you release the switch, the hold function is executed."

Rex said:
You just described a momentary switch. ;) There's no hold function involved.
Click to expand...

You're right. Here's what I wrote about that; I've underlined the relevant part for emphasis here:

State of Epicicity said:
Momentary Tap and Hold: To allow a function in which both the Tap and Hold functions are engaged, with the Hold function in Switch Up mode, but with the Tap function remaining enabled, for this Momentary Tap and Hold idea essentially to function the same way a CS Momentary switch would.
Click to expand...
 
State of Epicicity said:
Not if you engage the Switch Up function; that eliminates the time factor. Here's how it's described in the FC manual, on page 28:

"Changing this setting from its default
value of “TIMEOUT” to “SWITCH UP” allows you to modify the normal switch
behavior so that the Hold function only fires when the switch is released. In
this mode, as long as you continue holding the switch, nothing happens. Then,
at the precise moment you release the switch, the hold function is executed."



You're right. Here's what I wrote about that; I've underlined the relevant part for emphasis here:
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying. But why call it a hold function? It's not. It's just a behavior that you want to happen when the momentary switch is released. Hold functions only happen after you've held the switch for a certain length of time — otherwise, they never execute at all. But you want this function to happen every time you release the switch, regardless of how long it's been held.
 
Rex said:
But why call it a hold function? It's not. It's just a behavior that you want to happen when the momentary switch is released. Hold functions only happen after you've held the switch for a certain length of time — otherwise, they never execute at all. But you want this function to happen every time you release the switch, regardless of how long it's been held.
Click to expand...

It's already programmed by Fractal in the Axe FX III under the name Hold, with the Switch Up already available as a value. If you think of it the way you put it, you would not want to make the Switch Up value a parameter under the Hold Function Execute Mode parameter; you'd instead want to have it as a third option, something like having the ability to choose between Hold, as it's defined as a default, and Switch Up as a separate choice, so the name Hold is not attached to the Switch Up function. I'm offering my idea working with the unit as it is already, as a minor expansion in capability within the framework in which it's already designed, not suggesting renaming parts of it. That seemed more logical, and perhaps the least labor intensive to implement. All I care about is the functionality; I don't care what it's called. You seem to be saying that you really just don't like the fact that the Switch Up parameter Fractal has programmed is under the Hold Function parameter; that's fine, but all I'm suggesting is to have the ability to run the existing Hold (Switch Up) function with Tap remaining enabled. That seems like it might take the least programming to achieve. :)
 
mr_fender said:
What you are describing is a momentary scene toggle switch. There'd be no hold function involved.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did write that my idea is essentially to add the functionality of momentary switch behavior to the Tap and Hold function that already exists. The reason for this is Tap and Hold functions already have the ability to be assigned to scenes, but control switches do not. I am not referring literally to the default behavior of using the footswitch as a Hold, instead using the Switch Up function (which is under the Hold Execute menu, which is the confusion here) with Tap, which acts in the same manner as a momentary switch.

mr_fender said:
You'd either need to pre-define which scenes it toggle between or you'd need an new function to toggle back to the previous scene. I think there's a wish list item for the latter.
Click to expand...

You're right. You would need to predefine the scenes. This is what I wrote about that:

State of Epicicity said:
you'd be able to program the Tap function to go to Scene 2 only while you're pressing down on the footswitch, and it would revert to Scene 1, e.g., when you release the footswitch.
Click to expand...

As for the existing wish, I am aware of the one by @unix-guy about reverting to a previous scene. His wish does not mention momentary behavior, and I was not thinking of the ability to revert to the previous scene or channel, but a predefined one; however, it would be great to have the ability to revert to a predefined one or the last one used; whatever works for your setup. :)
 
State of Epicicity said:
It's already programmed by Fractal in the Axe FX III under the name Hold, with the Switch Up already available as a value. If you think of it the way you put it, you would not want to make the Switch Up value a parameter under the Hold Function Execute Mode parameter; you'd instead want to have it as a third option, something like having the ability to choose between Hold, as it's defined as a default, and Switch Up as a separate choice, so the name Hold is not attached to the Switch Up function. I'm offering my idea working with the unit as it is already, as a minor expansion in capability within the framework in which it's already designed, not suggesting renaming parts of it. That seemed more logical, and perhaps the least labor intensive to implement. All I care about is the functionality; I don't care what it's called. You seem to be saying that you really just don't like the fact that the Switch Up parameter Fractal has programmed is under the Hold Function parameter; that's fine, but all I'm suggesting is to have the ability to run the existing Hold (Switch Up) function with Tap remaining enabled. That seems like it might take the least programming to achieve. :)
Click to expand...
"Switch Up" is just an option to choose when the hold function fires. Does it fire after a timeout (gets you there as quickly as possible), or does it fire when you release the footswitch, but still after the timeout (gives you precise control over timing). But you still have to hold the switch for a certain amount of time to get the hold function, because it's a..."hold" function. :)
 
Last edited:
I just remembered the Switch Up Layout Link function, and it really is exactly the behavior I'm asking for in this wish. With that function, when you assign the Hold function of a switch to a Layout Link, it will only activate that Layout Link when you release your foot. The Tap function still works as normal, but the Hold only executes when you release your foot. If you could assign anything to that Hold function on foot release and still retain the Tap function, Man that would essentially make any programming act like a MIDI control switch, in which you could have two completely different types of commands execute from one button, one for pressing it, and a completely different one for releasing it.
 
Ahhh...I just tested it, and my assumption was wrong from rereading the manual. The way Layout Link works now, it functions by ignoring the Tap function. My wish remains the same though, to allow one function of any kind for switch down, and another, of any different kind, for switch up. Thanks!
 
I’m bumping this. Someone asked for something similar in the FM3, and I wrote detailed use cases that I’m quoting for this wish:

State of Epicicity said:
I wished for something similar some time ago for the Axe-FX III, and I’m 100% behind this! Momentary Scenes would be huge. I know this wish is for the FM3, but it’s equally helpful regardless of which current production Fractal modeler you’re using.

Consider this: a real world harmony, not one in which you’re playing diatonic thirds, but one in which you’re switching intervals according to harmonic context, à la some famous Metallica harmonies, in which the root and second are harmonized with a diatonic fourth (a fourth and augmented fourth, respectively), but the rest of the notes get a third above. Or one in which you switch between Aeolian and Harmonic minor for two sixteenth notes. Momentary Scenes would help immensely for that. I’ve created overly complicated workarounds to keep labeling clear, but Momentary Scenes would make it programming and layouts simple and clean.

Also consider a song like How Could I? by Cynic, in which one would switch between a high gain tone and clean very very quickly, in that case, three whole notes. A Momentary Clean Scene would make covering that song live simpler to program and to perform.

And of course, for those who want to add a an effect for just one lick in a solo, or as a call and answer to a vocalist, again, it makes it easy.

The biggest advantage over current Momentary Control Switching alone is a Scene that is Momentary would allow you to label your quick change on your Home Screen, to make it something you can recall on your Scene List instead of only a custom label on your FC Layout. The layout of your Preset OD instantly comprehensible to anyone, and easier to program.

This would also solve the problem of applying a Momentary operation to the switching of parameters that are not controllable via modifiers, like, e.g. Negative Feedback. For that, you’d need a Channel change. Okay, the easy way to change Channels momentarily would be with a Momentary Scene footswitch.

You can workaround most of the examples I’ve named here with existing tools; this would be largely for convenience. The idea behind Scenes is to make many Channel changes and Bypass states very easy and quick to program, so why not enhance that functionality further to allow one to trigger it only while depressing a footswitch!

To me, it’s huge.
Click to expand...
 
+1. Could be as conceptually simple (not suggesting that the code would be simple) as adding a Latching/Momentary (and Phrase, if it is added) option to Channel and Scene Toggle switch logic. Maybe also as option on Channel and Scene Select, which could then be set to revert to previous on release....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom