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FC-6 great, but gap when channel switching drive block

fractalz

Veteran
Just received my FC-6 today. This thing is a tank!

It is working great but I was surprised to hear an audio gap when switching a scene that switched a drive block channel. The drive model was the same with only a slight change to the drive knob (it was actually a mistake, the blocks were basically identical).

Are drive blocks not gapless when switching channels?
 

chris

Legend!
Just received my FC-6 today. This thing is a tank!

It is working great but I was surprised to hear an audio gap when switching a scene that switched a drive block channel. The drive model was the same with only a slight change to the drive knob (it was actually a mistake, the blocks were basically identical).

Are drive blocks not gapless when switching channels?
You’re certain nothing else was changing? Upload the preset if you really want help with this.
 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
Yes, the drive block mutes briefly when switching channels. It doesn't matter if the type or any parameters actually change.
 

slinky005

Forum Addict
I tested this as I was curious.
What constitutes a gap - a fraction of a second of silence?
When I set it to change channels (not scenes) for the drive, I'm not getting a gap if it's bypassed on both channels.
If I use two different settings I hear a "switching" but there's no actual gap.
 
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lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
I think anything that could result in an audible “pop” has a short gap to prevent that from happening. Probably could used the Router block, MUX or whatever it’s called and multiple drive blocks to get around this, instead of swapping channels.
 

fractalz

Veteran
Thanks for confirming guys. I thought the gaps were gone with the advent of channels but there are ways around this...
 

fractalz

Veteran
I tested this as I was curious.
What constitutes a gap - a fraction of a second of silence?
When I set it to change channels (not scenes) for the drive, I'm not getting a gap if it's bypassed on both channels.
If I use two different settings I hear a "switching" but there's no actual gap.
Yes, a brief silence, no matter how brief, is what I call a gap. This happened when I was "stepping on the gas" going to my lead patch and the brief silence took the wind out of my sails (gas out of my tires...?)... Anyway, lots of ways to work around it, but it was unexpected...
 

fractalz

Veteran
Test patch attached. Here is what gets recorded when I switch from scene 1 to 2 (only thing changing is the channel of the drive - same settings on each channel).

OD-GAP.jpg
 

Attachments

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Would you prefer an audible "pop" opposed to a nearly imperceptible (in a band context) gap though ?

I've owned real amp heads that have gaps when changing channels too
 

fractalz

Veteran
Would you prefer an audible "pop" opposed to a nearly imperceptible (in a band context) gap though ?

I've owned real amp heads that have gaps when changing channels too
Of course not.

As you know from being around here a while, many of us pay attention to organizing patches to create gapless scene changes. This case wasn't gapless and I thought it was worth noting (something I couldn't tell until my FC arrived).

I'm grateful the worst-case is a nicely faded gap, but I'll still prefer two drive blocks to the gap. And my Mesa Mark V would rip my head off when I channel switched so I know how bad it can get ;)
 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
It would be nice if the block do the quick fades without this ~15ms complete silence between them. That should still prevent pops while being less noticeable.

 

fractalz

Veteran
It would be nice if the block do the quick fades without this ~15ms complete silence between them. That should still prevent pops while being less noticeable.

The silence is probably where the real action occurs. Fade out, do stuff, fade in. If it could switch without needing the silence, it wouldn't fade out/in either.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
I think I've mentioned this before in various threads, but, figure worth bringing up again. In studying psycho-acoustics in grad school I had to do a lot of experiments on both normal and impaired hearing subjects. Running gap detection tests, a lot of subjects can't perceive audible gaps less than about 10ms, and many hearing impaired listeners couldn't detect gaps smaller than about 40ms!. Reason for this is that hearing loss, noise damage et al., doesn't just reduce auditory thresholds for soft sounds, BUT, also results in reduced temporal and frequency resolution. In other words, you can't tell apart similar sounds, can't detect gaps in timing etc.

Point of this is that 1) good reminders for musicians to protect their hearing, and more so 2) that some of these audio gaps that we can measure and detect in certain controlled environments are unlikely to be discernible by a lot of musicians and/or audience members.

I'm not saying they aren't real, or that some people can't hear them, BUT, that a lot of people who simply can not hear them in a best case scenario, and who have zero chance of hearing them in more everyday context. To which, I think it is somewhat a case of much ado over nothing, and I personally don't have any concerns about gaps.

I didn't have any issues with gaps on my II either, and if anything the III has reduced what I consider a non-issue even further
 

Rex

Legend!
...some of these audio gaps that we can measure and detect in certain controlled environments are unlikely to be discernible by a lot of musicians and/or audience members.
Well put. The gaps are like hairline scratches. If you put a hairline scratch across a uniform coat of paint, it's relatively easy to see the scratch. But put it on the border between two coats of paint, with different colors on each side of the scratch, and you may not even see the scratch until someone tells you to look for it.
 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
The silence is probably where the real action occurs. Fade out, do stuff, fade in. If it could switch without needing the silence, it wouldn't fade out/in either.
The first part might be true, but switching instantly without fades could still create pops. Parts of the spectrum could change level significantly from one drive setting to the next.
 

Rex

Legend!
The silence is probably where the real action occurs. Fade out, do stuff, fade in.
This has been my suspicion all along.


If it could switch without needing the silence, it wouldn't fade out/in either.
If the change affects the waveform at all, the fade-in/fade-out is necessary. Any discontinuous change in the waveform will be heard as a click or a pop.
 

Kamil Kisiel

Veteran
Yeah, there was some discussion about this amongst synth developers the other day. It's pretty counterintuitive, but even if you start a pure sine wave at 0 phase from pure silence you will get a pop unless you use a fade-in.
 

Adinfinitum

Veteran
I was surprised how much I loved THE FC6 With it's incredible flexibility.

I hate bringing up or asking for features or amp (except a Gk250 ML), but when switching presets I have a delay between switching presets and the prior preset trails. Hard to explain and I'm away so can't post anything.

I'm not gigging and I havemy MFC hooked up so not something to whine about. Cliff and Co have about a 100 firmware updates to work on, and I am sure tweaks and new features will be implemented.

At this point (20 years of digital modeling), all my hardware and plugins sound amazing. I even opened up Guitar Rig 5 and got great sounds, but . . . Axe3 blows me away. I haven't even loaded my bevy of IR because the included ones work for me. Let's just say it is inspirational.

Also Leon's and Austin Buddy's patches are amazing. Love the ROCKMAN TM

Wish I could send him my XP100!.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Yeah, there was some discussion about this amongst synth developers the other day. It's pretty counterintuitive, but even if you start a pure sine wave at 0 phase from pure silence you will get a pop unless you use a fade-in.
Not really counter-intuitive. Mathematically it's the product of the sine wave and the Heaviside step function. Doesn't matter that it's a sine wave at zero degrees. It's still a discontinuity. Discontinuities cause clicks.
 
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