FC-12 Feature Requests and Discussion

It sounds to me like you have two wish list items (both of which I agree with), but no bug reports. If you could state them without the editorializing, you might get some traction.
Agreed. And what seems to be a heavy dose of sarcasm.

I see the problems stated and agree, there needs to be what seems to be some fairly minor rework in the layout code. Perhaps the addition of a "Performance Bank Size" parameter and category and associated options would be useful as that's the current UI.

Back to the OP... if you haven't ever added this as a "Wish" or "Bug?" after knowing about it and not having seen others report it, then you should have as a member of the community. The big issues get caught early, and the less obvious ones take a while to be noticed, but the more eyes on the problem the quicker they're noticed and can be dealt with, just like open-source software. Fractal doesn't need to turn that code to an OS project, they just need us to act as partners in the process.

Honestly, your frustration and needing to vent seems to be self-inflicted. It's good you spoke up, but an earlier and more focused explanation would have helped you and us because it would have been in the queue and might have become a non-issue months ago.

Of course, listing out all the changes I would make on the FC-12 is not what my post was about.
Perhaps it should have been, and revising your OP to a direct statement documenting the problem, providing your ideas for how to solve the problem, then changing the title to flag "Bug?", will help. Also the Axe-Fx III Wishes: Master List is our goto place to see what is in the queue.

We're all in this together, and, while Fractal owns the intellectual property, we have financial and time investments which hook us with an emotional investment. Fractal is very aware the community is passionate and they listen. It's a good thing all around.

@Admin M@ @yek
 
Can you link me to the wish or bug thread for this issue?
On November 2020, I contacted Admin M@ since I noticed this was first mentioned in the FC-12 and FC-6 Controllers section in a thread titled "Wish: Bank Size Per Layout" from February 2019. I contacted the moderator because I thought maybe these bugs weren't getting the proper attention because they weren't in the correct section and should be moved to the Axe FX III wishlist section. His response was:

No need -- this request is known bystanders product designers and developers.
on Nov. 10th 2020.

But there are multiple threads by very patient folks who understand that not everything can be fixed at once.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-behaviour-with-bank-size-adjustments.151416/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/perform-1-and-show-bank.149688/#post-1776671
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fc-12-default-layout-7-not-acting-right.152294
 
On November 2020, I contacted Admin M@ since I noticed this was first mentioned in the FC-12 and FC-6 Controllers section in a thread titled "Wish: Bank Size Per Layout" from February 2019. I contacted the moderator because I thought maybe these bugs weren't getting the proper attention because they weren't in the correct section and should be moved to the Axe FX III wishlist section. His response was:


on Nov. 10th 2020.

But there are multiple threads by very patient folks who understand that not everything can be fixed at once.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-behaviour-with-bank-size-adjustments.151416/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/perform-1-and-show-bank.149688/#post-1776671
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fc-12-default-layout-7-not-acting-right.152294
Yes, the global bank size is probably the real issue, and having a bank size that is available per layout would fix it. But that would snowball into many other changes being necessary, so it's not a trivial tweak.
 
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Scrolling becomes a usability issue when it's too fast or too slow, especially when the LCDs are not keeping up.
I would gladly hold the switch down at the peak of a usable refresh on the screen than tap the switch 50 times like a lunatic on stage. :)
This type of problem has been solved before with other devices. Maybe scroll at 1 bank at a time at first then faster as you keep holding.
 
Agreed, these improvements would be great. But they are not bugs, and not “bugs being ignored.”

For the “hold to change banks quicker” improvement, how would it work if you had Bank Up on the tap function, and something else on the Hold function?
Maybe just make a function that scrolls when held, and let the user assign it to a hold function or a tap function?

If set as a hold function, it could live under the same button that increments one bank at a time in the same direction.

If set as a tap, it would require there to not be a hold function on that switch.

I have increment/decrement by 5 banks on holds for my bank up/down buttons. Seems to get me pretty far fairly quickly, but I can see the case for just holding and scrolling, as my bank size is 4, so even 5 banks at a shot, it would take a while to get "halfway around the world" - i.e., 64 banks up or down (128 each way in the newer units) with a hold detection wait each time....
 
On November 2020, I contacted Admin M@ since I noticed this was first mentioned in the FC-12 and FC-6 Controllers section in a thread titled "Wish: Bank Size Per Layout" from February 2019. I contacted the moderator because I thought maybe these bugs weren't getting the proper attention because they weren't in the correct section and should be moved to the Axe FX III wishlist section. His response was:


on Nov. 10th 2020.

But there are multiple threads by very patient folks who understand that not everything can be fixed at once.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-behaviour-with-bank-size-adjustments.151416/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/perform-1-and-show-bank.149688/#post-1776671
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fc-12-default-layout-7-not-acting-right.152294
now we have complete information for this thread topic.

seems like it hasn't been done yet. a bump to the existing wish/bug threads could have worked i think.

setlists have been a major request by many. if you had to choose setlists or hold bank switches, which would you work on first?
 
I would gladly hold the switch down at the peak of a usable refresh on the screen than tap the switch 50 times like a lunatic on stage. :)
This type of problem has been solved before with other devices. Maybe scroll at 1 bank at a time at first then faster as you keep holding.

A couple things:
  • I keep all my presets in one group, making it easy to move to specific ones.
  • It seems like something that a MIDI controller could help with; If you're using one for anything on stage piggybacking on its PC messages might help. You'd have to synchronize your presets with its ideas of presets and their order then let it do the heavy lifting.
  • Fractal has hinted strongly that set management functionality is really close to release, which would make it easy to organize/reorganize presets based on set lists.
 
But that would snowball into many other changes being necessary, so it's not a trivial tweak.
Which is why it's frustrating that somehow this poor device hasn't gotten the attention it deserves from the beginning so that not much would need to be changed.

My post was really about how the FC-12 isn't getting the UI attention it needs for the performer. It works, but it could've been better from the beginning or at least with some updates.

Despite how it may seem, I'm the guy who talks his friends out of buying Kempers. I can't imagine anyone using anything other than a Fractal device. I think it's that good. I had high hopes for the FC-12.

Add a scroll speed parameter to the switch assignment? Slow, Medium, Fast, Warp Speed?
I don't think we have to reinvent the wheel here. Other devices like the MFC-101 could do it. If the FC-12 display is somehow able to show a variety of faster updates, then yes, provide a parameter to control the speed. At least initially, any scroll ala MFC-101 would have sufficed.
 
If it was me, in a live setting, my presets would already be grouped much closer together, to never cause me to need to go from 1 to 512.
But ok, let's assume you were not being literal, but instead just using, as an example, needing to go from the first to the last..., and let's allow for the possibility of, you had a request, and needed to find a preset you don't use that often.
Even in that case, all my presets would be backed up to a computer, and probably 80% of all the others, wouldn't even be on the unit. That still leaves you at least ~100 presets, which should easily suffice in a live setting, no matter how improv it may be.
 
I knew this would come up. I could go into explaining my specific use case, but really, if you have 1024 presets, or even 512, you shouldn't use them all? Just move the 10 presets that you use for your gig into the first bank and be happy?

It was designed for a whole bunch of presets. I bet that number will even double again in the future with another model. Maybe it's time to think about those users who actually use all those presets?

Again though, not what my post was about.
Here's my take.

1.. The foot controller is meant for accessing stuff when your hands are busy, like during a performance. Who needs random access to hundreds of presets in that situation.

2.. At home, or jamming with friends, or in a recoding session, etc... You can easily use the front panel, or the Editor to quickly access any preset.

Having said that... You could setup your Bank Up and Down switches to move by banks of 5, or 10, or ?, with the Hold function or on another switch??

A better option/wish is for a direct numeral enter option, but would be an issue implementing on the FC6?
 
I don't think we have to reinvent the wheel here. Other devices like the MFC-101 could do it. If the FC-12 display is somehow able to show a variety of faster updates, then yes, provide a parameter to control the speed. At least initially, any scroll ala MFC-101 would have sufficed.
I don't see it so much as reinventing the wheel, but refining it, taking off some if the corners so it rolls smoother. Maybe some folks' eyesight is not so great and we want a slower scroll. I figure 'fast' would be the default speed, matching the MFC scroll speed, and that gives two slower options and one faster one all for just two bits of settings data storage....
 
I knew this would come up. I could go into explaining my specific use case, but really, if you have 1024 presets, or even 512, you shouldn't use them all? Just move the 10 presets that you use for your gig into the first bank and be happy?
And I knew that'd be your answer, lol. (I went back to reading the remaining posts after I replied.)
There's certain things one should do/not do in a live setting, such as waste time between songs. Call it, "Best Practices for a Gigging Musician." Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There's already an easy way to deal with 500 hundred presets (that no one should be trying to look through in a live setting.) Just because you choose not to do it that way, doesn't mean it's a poor design.
 
Here's my take.

1.. The foot controller is meant for accessing stuff when your hands are busy, like during a performance. Who needs random access to hundreds of presets in that situation.

2.. At home, or jamming with friends, or in a recoding session, etc... You can easily use the front panel, or the Editor to quickly access any preset.

Having said that... You could setup your Bank Up and Down switches to move by banks of 5, or 10, or ?, with the Hold function or on another switch??

A better option/wish is for a direct numeral enter option, but would be an issue implementing on the FC6?
agreed. but comments here allude to "i shouldn't have to do that" or even "i don't want to do it that way." understandable. but until features are implemented, that's the best way to do it.

if the goal of the thread was to call attention on the FCs not being updated, i think it has accomplished that.

as for notions of "it's been a year and it's not done yet" or "other/previous controllers did these things", statements like that don't make implementation easier and time more available.

it seems like the team knows about these requests, as shown in a post in this thread. if it hasn't been done yet, then it hasn't been done yet.

perhaps a more direct post like "it's been a while since these feature requests, can these be prioritized?" would have been more effective, rather than a passive approach that caused confusion.
 
And I knew that'd be your answer, lol. (I went back to reading the remaining posts after I replied.)
There's certain things one should do/not do in a live setting, such as waste time between songs. Call it, "Best Practices for a Gigging Musician." Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There's already an easy way to deal with 500 hundred presets (that no one should be trying to look through in a live setting.) Just because you choose not to do it that way, doesn't mean it's a poor design.
Prep is king for performance, but when the setlist gets tossed, sometimes you need to go hunt for a thing. For now, when searching for something like that, I turn the knob on the hardware, but a footswitch to scroll banks should be available, IMHO. Maybe not before a Setlist functiinality, but hopefully soon after. :)
 
setlists have been a major request by many. if you had to choose setlists or hold bank switches, which would you work on first?
Setlists are certainly more practical and will help far more performers so if I could choose I would go there.

That was a feature request I was waiting on making and then I heard it had already been requested. That was one of the requests I'm losing hope on as time passes.

perhaps a more direct post like "it's been a while since these feature requests, can these be prioritized?" would have been more effective, rather than a passive approach that caused confusion.
From my point of view it's like being caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, we're told that the request has been made and you don't want to keep driving the point because it annoys people, and on the other hand the solution is also to keep annoying them so they don't forget. o_O
 
Prep is king for performance, but when the setlist gets tossed, sometimes you need to go hunt for a thing. For now, when searching for something like that, I turn the knob on the hardware, but a footswitch to scroll banks should be available, IMHO. Maybe not before a Setlist functiinality, but hopefully soon after. :)
Yes, I can see that now too.
 
and you don't want to keep driving the point because it annoys people, and on the other hand the solution is also to keep annoying them so they don't forget. o_O
Don't worry about that one. There was a forum member who claimed something wasn't right with a certain amp model, and was quite vocal about it, and received a fair amount of "just do this" responses. He didn't relent, and it was dealt with. If memory serves, I believe he was right.
 
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