FC-12 arrives next week - uber-n00B question on Tap and Hold switch functions

[Joe Bfstplk]

Is it possible for tap to switch rotary speed as a latching switch while hold switches rotary speed momentary?

 

[Rex]

Is it possible for tap to switch rotary speed as a latching switch while hold switches rotary speed momentary?

Try it and see. It's a three-minute experiment.

 

[Rex]

Or consider that momentary switching requires a Control Switch, and Control Switches require that no Hold function be assigned.

In other words, if you hold down the footswitch, how will the system know whether you're holding the momentary switch or triggering the Hold function?

 

[Bakerman]

OP said hold would be the momentary CS function. Is that possible?

The manual says momentary control switches "should" be assigned as tap w/ no hold function, and there's a footnote about tap allowing tightest timing. That doesn't really explain if it prevents momentary CS as hold, which seems like an unnecessary limitation.

I'd hope the new trigger hold (toggle) function on release wouldn't prevent a momentary CS hold function from being assigned either. Unlike a toggle, it would obviously need to trigger while held and deactivate on release.

 

[Rex]

OP said hold would be the momentary CS function. Is that possible?

The manual says momentary control switches "should" be assigned as tap w/ no hold function, and there's a footnote about tap allowing tightest timing. That doesn't really explain if it prevents momentary CS as hold, which seems like an unnecessary limitation.

My fallback position is post #2.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Ok, so it looks like I need to build a dual-switch box with a momentary and a latching switch operating in concert like the 3-way switches at either end of your hallway or stairway, i.e. both switches controlling on/off status of the light. That way I can set the controller to expect a momentary, and get momentary action when I step on the momentary switch, but get latching action when I step on the latching switch. Not a huge deal.

I will likely have more n00b questions after it arrives next Friday....

 

[Rex]

Yeah, if you think about it, the way you originally proposed to set it up, the momentary Hold function would only work half the time, depending on whether the latching Tap function was on or off.

 

[Bakerman]

I think you could also have an FC switch as momentary CS, then one external latching switch as stand-in for that switch.

The dual-switch box would be nice if you want momentary to always get the opposite of current latched state, like the light switch example. Two CS on the FC could actually do this (pretty sure) but there's a bit more setup and it requires one of the two general LFOs.

 

[Rex]

Two CS on the FC could actually do this (pretty sure) but there's a bit more setup and it requires one of the two general LFOs.

How would you do that without the ability to configure the footswitch to toggle the bypass state?

 

[Bakerman]

How would you do that without the ability to configure the footswitch to toggle the bypass state?

I don't think bypass was mentioned here, only speed. This could be used with a bypass modifier too though. Maybe I'm not understanding the question but here's a (quick) summary of the LFO setup:

- Stopped LFO "B" output assigned as modifier source for rate/bypass/anything

- Control switches modify LFO B Phase & Duty in a certain way to do what the OP described

I'd need to try setting it up or at least sketch/think a bit to be certain if the momentary switch can actually go to the opposite state of current latching state, or just force one setting e.g. fast.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I think you could also have an FC switch as momentary CS, then one external latching switch as stand-in for that switch.

The dual-switch box would be nice if you want momentary to always get the opposite of current latched state, like the light switch example. Two CS on the FC could actually do this (pretty sure) but there's a bit more setup and it requires one of the two general LFOs.

That is, in a nutshell, what I am after: momentary not the current state. Off to the parts sites to find a couple SPDT or DPDT switches, one momentary, one latching, and a nice aluminium box. Need to see how my bottle of Ferric Chloride is doing, so I can order that too if I'm out....

 

[Rex]

I don't think bypass was mentioned here, only speed. This could be used with a bypass modifier too though. Maybe I'm not understanding the question but here's a (quick) summary of the LFO setup:

- Stopped LFO "B" output assigned as modifier source for rate/bypass/anything

- Control switches modify LFO B Phase & Duty in a certain way to do what the OP described

I'd need to try setting it up or at least sketch/think a bit to be certain if the momentary switch can actually go to the opposite state of current latching state, or just force one setting e.g. fast.

Yeah, I mistyped. Rotary speed, not bypass state. Still, the same issue. Control Switches can send values, but there's no provision for switching to "the state I'm not currently in."

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Can't find the stomp switch I did 20 or so years ago, but can show you all what the FeCl is for.

Aluminium and FeCl solution don't like each other. The chemical reaction is hot, messy, and stinky, but leaves the Aluminium that it touches looking dull and rusty. A little polishing and subsequent application of a decal or even a Sharpie marker's ink before dunking it in the 'Dip' leaves the covered bits shiny. Dressing up like Judge Doom is optional.

I did this house number sign with that technique, and it works great for stomp boxes, which I would have shown if I knew exactly which box it hides in out in the garage....

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Thanks for the help, your responses contained the info that made it clear. Controllers probably can't do the !(current state) thing, so it is left to switch building to do the job using the old IBEW tricks....

 

[lqdsnddist]

Why not just assign a pedal to rotary speed ? Then if you want it faster momentarily, you rock it forward and then back (add some lag time for a proper Leslie style spin up/down) and if you want it 'latched" faster just take your foot off the pedal at the speed you want...

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I could use a pedal, but a switch is easier, as the low and high speeds are generally fixed in a Leslie. The switch mounted to the organ actually has a third state between 'Chorale' (slow) and 'Vibrato' (fast) speeds that cuts power to the motors spinning the horn and drum.

Plus, this way I get to cosplay Judge Doom.

 

[Rex]

Why not just assign a pedal to rotary speed ? Then if you want it faster momentarily, you rock it forward and then back (add some lag time for a proper Leslie style spin up/down) and if you want it 'latched" faster just take your foot off the pedal at the speed you want...

This.

I could use a pedal, but a switch is easier...

Nope. It's the other way around.

...the low and high speeds are generally fixed in a Leslie.

Set the modifier so toe-down is the high speed that you want, and toe-up is your desired low speed. Switching between the two becomes dead simple, you get in-between positions if you want them, and as @lqdsnddist said, latching at any speed is as simple as taking your foot off the pedal.

Plus, this way I get to cosplay Judge Doom.

You can do that regardless of your pedal arrangement.

 

[Bakerman]

Yeah, I mistyped. Rotary speed, not bypass state. Still, the same issue. Control Switches can send values, but there's no provision for switching to "the state I'm not currently in."

That's what the LFO makes possible. Assign a stopped triangle LFO's B output to rate, with all change occurring above 55% or so. The exact curve doesn't matter since you can set damping to 0 and use low/high time constants in the block. Setting mid to 0 and maxing scale works.

Have one switch toggle LFO duty between 5% and 50% and the other toggle B phase between 18° & 180°. It doesn't matter which one gets the momentary switch.

 

[Rex]

That's what the LFO makes possible. Assign a stopped triangle LFO's B output to rate, with all change occurring above 55% or so. The exact curve doesn't matter since you can set damping to 0 and use low/high time constants in the block. Setting mid to 0 and maxing scale works.


Have one switch toggle LFO duty between 5% and 50% and the other toggle B phase between 18° & 180°. It doesn't matter which one gets the momentary switch.

Clever. We're still talking two switches, right? (As apposed to one switch with Tap and Hold functions.)

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

That's what the LFO makes possible. Assign a stopped triangle LFO's B output to rate, with all change occurring above 55% or so. The exact curve doesn't matter since you can set damping to 0 and use low/high time constants in the block. Setting mid to 0 and maxing scale works.

Have one switch toggle LFO duty between 5% and 50% and the other toggle B phase between 18° & 180°. It doesn't matter which one gets the momentary switch.

Will have to test this out to see how it works once I get the unit. I kind-of understand how it works, and since tap and hold would be assigned different items to poke at, it would maybe let one of the FC switches do what my 2-switch box does.

That said, was kinda looking forward to building a switch and etching the face, so I may yet do that, but perhaps for a different purpose....

Thanks, all, for the input!