FBT vs RCF... Looking for Experienced Comparisons

I'm looking for feedback from those who have used the FBT Verve 12ma speakers with their setup. All I really hear about on all the online forums are the RCF NX speakers but I can't really get a handle on why I'd need to spend $1,100+ more on a pair of RCF vs a pair of FBT. Is something wrong with the Verve's? Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated.
 
IMO it's largely a matter of taste, application, and budget. When I A/B'ed an FBT 8ma with my QSC K8s, I really didn't care for the FBTs. I also didn't like the K12 so much relative to the K8.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a forumite within reasonable driving distance who wouldn't let you check out the FBTs.
 
Im looking for some descriptive reasons, observations and/or experiences regarding the FBT and as to why one feels the RCF is a step above the FBT. By the way I am mainly interested in the 12" versions of both but would definitely like to hear about the 8ma as well. We are talking a 35% premium for the RCF. So for that it'd need to be quite a bit better otherwise what's the point? Hence why I'm asking for opinions. Thanks!
 
I currently have a pair of 12ma that do the job until all the other new options come out. They are very loud and reasonably compact.

Do a search for Verve 12ma eq, or posts from Merlin17. There are some major threads about the FBT vs RCF. He's probably one of the most vocal critics of the 12ma (had them and switched to RCF), and he also posted a corrective EQ that is supposed to flatten out the Verves somewhat. I'm sure he'll chime in here soon.:)

TT
 
PM merlin17 and ask him to weigh in here, or search through his threads. He had the FBT, and he's credited as the first guy to introduce the RCF to the forums here. The short answer is that I don't know of anyone who's heard both and thought the FBT was anywhere close. I've seen posts that actually refer to the FBT as fairly significantly flawed, in fact. I'm an RCF user, but I've never heard the FBT, so all I can tell you from my own personal experience is that the RCF is fantastic.

Google search for merlin17 FBT RCF on this forum
 
I've worked with the FBT 12ma and owned the 8ma for quite a while. I have owned and used the RCF NX 12SMA.

The RCF speakers are a very different level of gear IMHO. The cost difference between the FBT and the RCF is far less than you think they are; use PM and ask me or contact Mike Pyle at Audiopyle Sound -
707-315-6204 mike@audiopyle.com[FONT=arial, sans-serif] (**He has asked for everyone to NOT publish his prices; in the spirit of sharing a good deal with other folks, please do not publish his prices online). [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Whether or not the RCF is worth the extra premium to you is up to you and ONLY you. IMHO, definitely worth it. [/FONT]
 
Thanks for chiming in Scott. Can you elaborate on strengths and weaknesses you experienced with the 12ma?
By the way, discounted FBT to discounted RCF, HAS to be at least a $400 difference a piece. I'm not necessarily looking for bang for the buck, I'm just not too keen on going over $2k for a pair of frfr monitors when I have AWESOME cabs at my disposal. The EV elx112p for $1k are where my head is at at this time. Everyone is telling me I need a coaxial and that I won't stay with the EV's for long. Hence why the FBT's popped up as an option.
 
The EV is not a bad option if that's the price you want to be at. I had one at first, but returned it and got the RCF instead. I didn't feel like I needed a pair, so in terms of total cost, I was looking at half of what you are any way you go. But in terms of quality vs price, the equation is the same. I'm very pleased having gone to the RCF, and I felt it was worth upgrading. But to anyone whose budget isn't able to support the RCF, I really do feel the EV is an outstanding option at its price. I also liked the Yamaha DSR12, which is $100 more. Read more about my thoughts and those of others here:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-...vs-ev-elx112p-first-thoughts-mini-review.html

I do enjoy the properties that a coax brings, but I don't think a speaker is automatically better because it's a coax. A good two way should be a better choice than an OK-Bad coax. Again, I haven't heard the FBT first hand, I've just read some people saying it isn't that good. I think that if $1000 for a pair of speakers is the neighborhood you're comfortable with, you won't beat the EVs. I can't compare the FBTs to them, but from what I've read, I would not assume that the FBTs are better simply because they're coax.

If you have some room to go up, you could also look at the RCF NX-10-SMA instead. I had a hard time deciding which to go with, and I eventually went with the 12 just because I do like playing heavier stuff and wanted to make sure I had plenty of low end. But even there, everything I read about the 10s said they were very, very close to the 12.

Finally, another consideration would be how badly you need two speakers, at least initially. If it's a concern with spending that much money on speakers just as a general principle, this doesn't help, but if it's about cash flow, maybe having one nice speaker is better than having two mid-range speakers. When you've recovered from purchasing one and your cash flow allows it, get the second one. If you do have any doubts as to how happy you'll be with a pair of EVs, you're better off spending the money on a single RCF now, and adding the second one later. You'll spend less than buying two EVs, finding you want the RCFs, and having to sell them, presumably at some loss, to buy two RCFs. Again, this is assuming it's just an immediate cash flow question, and assuming you don't strongly need two right away. Of course, if you go with the EV pair and it turns out you're totally satisfied with them, you'll spend less that way. I certainly could have been happy with the EVs, I just wanted to move up to the next level. I'm glad I did, but everyone has to look at their finances and where they want to put their money.
 
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The EV is not a bad option if that's the price you want to be at. I had one at first, but returned it and got the RCF instead. I didn't feel like I needed a pair, so in terms of total cost, I was looking at half of what you are any way you go. But in terms of quality vs price, the equation is the same. I'm very pleased having gone to the RCF, and I felt it was worth upgrading. But to anyone whose budget isn't able to support the RCF, I really do feel the EV is an outstanding option at its price. I also liked the Yamaha DSR12, which is $100 more. Read more about my thoughts and those of others here:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-...vs-ev-elx112p-first-thoughts-mini-review.html

I do enjoy the properties that a coax brings, but I'm don't think a speaker is automatically better because it's a coax. A good two way should be a better choice than an OK-Bad coax. Again, I haven't heard the FBT first hand, I've just read some people saying it isn't that good. I think that if $1000 for a pair of speakers is the neighborhood you're comfortable with, you won't beat the EVs. I can't compare the FBTs to them, but from what I've read, I would not assume that the FBTs are better simply because they're coax.

If you have some room to go up, you could also look at the RCF NX-10-SMA instead. I had a hard time deciding which to go with, and I eventually went with the 12 just because I do like playing heavier stuff and wanted to make sure I had plenty of low end. But even there, everything I read about the 10s said they were very, very close to the 12.

Finally, another consideration would be how badly you need two speakers, at least initially. If it's a concern with spending that much money on speakers just as a general principle, this doesn't help, but if it's about cash flow, maybe having one nice speaker is better than having two mid-range speakers. When you've recovered from purchasing one and your cash flow allows it, get the second one. If you do have any doubts as to how happy you'll be with a pair of EVs, you're better off spending the money on a single RCF now, and adding the second one later. You'll spend less than buying two EVs, finding you want the RCFs, and having to sell them, presumably at some loss, to buy two RCFs. Again, this is assuming it's just an immediate cash flow question, and assuming you don't strongly need two right away. Of course, if you go with the EV pair and it turns out you're totally satisfied with them, you'll spend less that way. I certainly could have been happy with the EVs, I just wanted to move up to the next level. I'm glad I did, but everyone has to look at their finances and where they want to put their money.

I'd type an eloquent response... but really... he just did. I agree with him almost wholeheartedly.

The FBT Verve 12ma was loud; but had a huge issue in the mids (scooped). It never sounded "right" to me; workable, livable... but I *much* preferred the 8ma on pure sonics. The 8ma did NOT exhibit that sort of behavior. The 12ma is LOUD, but didn't sound good. Nothing more or less. And that's 100% subjective opinion. I had many opportunities to buy the 12ma when I owned and used the 8ma... never interested me enough to buy it.

The RCF exhibits no 'defects' in how it sounds. It sounds essentially the same from +90db to over +127db (which I've peaked it at momentarily on my db meter). It just sounds good. It works good. It's a good design. It's totally professional and my criticisms of it are thus: it is directional, sometimes a strength (used as a personal monitor in front of you aimed at your head)... sometimes (carrying the room) a weakness. The carrying handle is uncomfortable; sturdy for sure. Almost ridiculously bad ergonomics though. When you put it on a stand, the cables connect on *top*; which is just not cool. It's not easy to adjust the controls (which are on the same panel as the inputs for the cables) and when on a stand it looks silly with the cables sitting pointing straight up out of the thing. The controls are not clearly marked; I just use the sound to set them. They appear to be marked backasswards. :D

But notice - other than directional - the negatives contain nothing about how it sounds. It's a professional level solution. It is not without flaws. It is however, worth every penny it costs.

That's based on well over 4 dozen shows thus far since I've owned it. I'm very happy with it.
 
Thanks for the candid response Scott. Did the 8ma have good bass response? I guess what I am looking for is an alternative to the EV's if there happens to be something better for a little more. I am perfectly happy with a power amp and cab but, would like to give frfr a fair shake but, not sure if I want to give it an over $2K+ shake if you know what I mean.
 
Thanks for the candid response Scott. Did the 8ma have good bass response? I guess what I am looking for is an alternative to the EV's if there happens to be something better for a little more. I am perfectly happy with a power amp and cab but, would like to give frfr a fair shake but, not sure if I want to give it an over $2K+ shake if you know what I mean.

The 8ma has no bass response below 100Hz. It's loud as long as you are in direct line with it; but it will not do if you need a big loud monitor. That is not what it can do.

The keyboardist in my band uses that EV for his own monitoring (on my suggestion) and he digs it. It sounds good and is loud. It's 'brash' and 'hyped' when you A/B it with the same source versus my RCF; and because it is a separate horn/woofer the tone can vary depending on where you are standing. But it is a VERY good value for the money, that's straight up.

My opinion, 100% candid and honest, but just my opinion.
 
Had and didn't like the Fbt. Had and returned RCF due to defect. Awaiting offerings from Jet City, Matrix and Atomic.
 
I am going to be getting a RCF NX12SMA in the near future and would like to know if any1 who uses it had to adjust the output 2 global eq in order to make their presets work on rcf. (assuming it sounds great in studio monitors and most PAs.)

Same question goes for the verve, I am in the same situation as the poster and the verve is also under strong consideration.

I also have a Db technologies Flexsys fm 10 coaxial monitor and I had to split the signal in my plexi patches and throw in a separate eq block just for output 2 before the effects loop in order to make it work on that monitor.
 
I could not get a decent sound out of the Fbt. I tried all the tricks that surfaced, PEQs, the inverse IR and the global EQ ideas.

We've all had that relationship in life with an emotionally unstable partner with depression issues. No matter how hard we tried, or excuses we made for them, there was always a gap that was unable to bridged. Eventually, we come to conclude it is hopeless and the only path to joy is escape. My Fbt experience pretty much paralleled that. Way too much energy for far too little return.
 
I'm going to probably get beat up a little for this but here goes.....(this is just my opinion)

I use the FBT Verve 12ma every night. With Merlin's Correction IR, I find the Verve very close to flat, and it sounds Excellent. I stress this....the Correction IR absolutely necessary for me.
I have also tried (and gigged) with the RCF NX12. Was it better, yes it was.

I A/B'd the RCF and Verve in my basement and went back and forth for hours. I'm going to go out on a limb and say if the RCF was 95% of what I'm looking for, then the Verve was 80%.
Although I have total GAS (all the time), that 15% improvement wasn't enough to make me jump on the RCF...(YET!.....and it's been hard NOT to purchase one)

The reason.....there are some other great options that are coming out soon (Matrix, Atomic CLR, XiTone) and I want to see if any of these may be better than the RCF. Trying my best to be patient, so I can satisfy my GAS with one purchase. If I'm going to drop the coin again, I want to make sure I'm not trying to sell it on eBay (or the Forum) in 2 months because there is a new option that is a bit better. In the meantime, I'm happy with the Verve.

The biggest advantage for me with the RCF, was that it was already close to flat. So my patches created on studio monitors, translate great on the RCF's.
With the Verve, they do not translate well from studio monitors....UNTIL, I add the Corrective IR. It's a small step to perform...but it still is a pain.
I would much rather just have a flat speaker and not have to always use an extra Cab block just to fix my FRFR.

If anyone in the Boston area wants to try a Verve....PM me....you're welcome to try mine.
 
When you put it on a stand, the cables connect on *top*; which is just not cool. It's not easy to adjust the controls (which are on the same panel as the inputs for the cables) and when on a stand it looks silly with the cables sitting pointing straight up out of the thing.

I'm betting that was a design solution to it's range of placement, there likely being an emphasis by users to floor place. Either on it's side or upright, the most accessible cable spot would be the top.


We've all had that relationship in life with an emotionally unstable partner with depression issues. No matter how hard we tried, or excuses we made for them, there was always a gap that was unable to bridged. Eventually, we come to conclude it is hopeless and the only path to joy is escape.

HAH. Were this posted and well-read on every online forum and roadside billboard.....
 
I have an RCF ART 722A. It beats every other powered monitor that I've ever tried, including the Mackie HD series, which IMO, sound "tinny" and lack in midrange punch. I dont like the whistling noise they have at standby/bedroom level either. Irritates my Tinnitus something awful
 
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