Favorite FRFR powered speaker?

guitarslave1 said:
So do tell...what is your perceived difference between the two?

I see a lot of people buying K10s or K12s but the .2 versions are only $100 more. Why not go for the newer model?
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I put my QSC K10 side by side with an Atomic CLR at the Dallas-Fort Worth Axe-FX meetup back in 2012. The difference in quality was immediately obvious. The K10 sounded hazy, indistinct - almost blurry compared to the Atomic CLR. We did an A/B comparison, switching back and forth between the two loudspeaker systems from a single reference audio source (a CD player). It was almost like night and day,

I bought an Atomic CLR active wedge, and then a second one, and then I sold the K10s.

 
Sixstring said:
Ok so most if not all prosumer PA style systems advertise peak power and this is not what the box can do continuously. Peak power is pretty much a theretticall that the amp and speaker can do for a short while at a giver frequency not much good in the real world.

They all do this and I can't stand this type of marketing and it's all to get you to buy the one that has the most unuseable power numbers. I would much rather see what the box can do all day long and leave the rest for headroom.

The other thing is you not playing through 2,000 watts of power, when you Bi amp it's two separate amps, one for the highs and one for the lows but the marketing team likes to add these two together.

This is the biggest lie of them all. I looked at QSC specs and the 1800 watts for the lows and 225 for the highs and again that's peak power. I didn't see the continuous rating. You will never see this kind of power being used, the protection circuit won't let you and if you could it would sound like ass and most likely melt the voice coils.

Continuous power numbers are how they should be advertised not peak. This is misleading and a half truth just to make themselves sound better to the unsuspecting buyer. Cut the numbers roughly in half and that's probably what you are really getting to use.
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Well said @Sixstring. Using advertised wattage for gauging how loud a speaker will be not going to yield good results.
As you said - it's peak power, it's for a short period of time, and it is only a one of the components of 'volume'. Speaker sensitivity is a huge component as well (which is something nobody pays attention to)

The max output of a speaker is an 'ok' way to get a sense of what the volume may be in real life. The problem is, they never mention what frequency that max output is coming from.
As an example - sure 133db looks like a nice solid number for max output. But what if the only frequencies that hit that db level were above 6k? That means your speaker could produce a really nice high end squealing sound at 133db, but can't produce any mid range at that volume.

Sure I look at specs before I consider a speaker. But I also would go look for real reviews and/or go hear the speaker before I believe anything in a spec sheet.
 
You could save several hundred up to $500 buy a used CLR as opposed to a brand new NEO...several people have been basically giving them away.
 
BBN said:
Well said @Sixstring. Using advertised wattage for gauging how loud a speaker will be not going to yield good results.
As you said - it's peak power, it's for a short period of time, and it is only a one of the components of 'volume'. Speaker sensitivity is a huge component as well (which is something nobody pays attention to)

The max output of a speaker is an 'ok' way to get a sense of what the volume may be in real life. The problem is, they never mention what frequency that max output is coming from.
As an example - sure 133db looks like a nice solid number for max output. But what if the only frequencies that hit that db level were above 6k? That means your speaker could produce a really nice high end squealing sound at 133db, but can't produce any mid range at that volume.

Sure I look at specs before I consider a speaker. But I also would go look for real reviews and/or go hear the speaker before I believe anything in a spec sheet.
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Yup! the way marketing is done for prosumer stuff really lights my fuse! A lot of guys that are coming from an amp and guitar cab or guys that just don't mess with full range speaker systems get caught up in the BS that's regurgitated relentlessly year after year trying to one up the other.

Oh and that freq they like to use for that SPL number, the number I have seen the most of when they actually publish it is 1 kHz. This is just plain comical as most everyone I know uses a lot more than just 1 kHz of bandwidth when they playback anything remotely musical. So yeah 133 dB is blistering loud but you have to be 500 yards away to listen to 1 kHz lol! I suppose it would be good for use as crowd control in a riot senario.

I just wish someone would make companies do it right and make them publish numbers that mean actually something in the real world instead of using the Wee Wee measuring method.

Rant over!!!
 
My favorite overall is the Friedman ASC-12, sounds most like a guitar cab and with some "tweaking". It is just an amazing option. In that $400 price range I'd have to try and find a used DXR-10 which holds it's own against the big guys!
 
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Had K10 (original series) and then switched to CLR. I still have the K10 for other reasons, but they are not in the same class as a CLR. CLR: Flat and accurate. K10: hyped and harsh highs, hyped and boomy lows, muddy/indistinct (distant sounding) mids. I would take one CLR over two K10's in a heartbeat. The CLR's are so good we use them in our FOH too. Makes the guitar and vocals sound great. It is like hearing a real voice instead of the artificial/processed sound you get out of a K10 IMHO.
 
Randall d said:
The CLR's are so good we use them in our FOH too. Makes the guitar and vocals sound great. It is like hearing a real voice instead of the artificial/processed sound you get out of a K10 IMHO.
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@Randall d When you use them for FOH do you use a sub too? If so what sub?
 
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Randall d said:
Had K10 (original series) and then switched to CLR. I still have the K10 for other reasons, but they are not in the same class as a CLR. CLR: Flat and accurate. K10: hyped and harsh highs, hyped and boomy lows, muddy/indistinct (distant sounding) mids. I would take one CLR over two K10's in a heartbeat. The CLR's are so good we use them in our FOH too. Makes the guitar and vocals sound great. It is like hearing a real voice instead of the artificial/processed sound you get out of a K10 IMHO.
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How do the CLRs hold as far as the cab (dings, chips, etc.)? Are they loud enough? Did you compare them to anything else (other than the K10s)? Thanks in advance!
 
nznat said:
are the QSC 10s true FRFR?
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Yes, they can be set to FLAT. To my recollection, there's also a VOCAL setting and and EXT SUB setting. I have several of the K12's with hundreds and of hours on them. They're more than up to the task if you're doing FRFR - and lots of other things.
 
We use them with QSC KSubs for the portability. We do classic rock so we don't need 18" subs.

We use Studio Slip covers for the CLR's and we are careful with them. But they are easy to scratch and dent. It is about the only thing I don't like about them.

Yes, you can set a QSC K series to "Flat" but they are anything but flat even in that setting. And flat frequency response is not the only factor in evaluating the sound of a speaker. You could take any junk speaker and EQ them to a flat response (with a really good EQ), but they will still sound like a junk speaker (only flat). So yes, you can (and I did) EQ the K10 to have a flat response, but it will never sound as good as a CLR period. BTW, I am not saying the QSC is a "junk" speaker. It is just not at the level of the CLR. Not even close to my ears.
 
First thing I bought was the QSC K12s but they are vague sounding. Avoid them if you don't require their durability. That being said, I have found that the guitar sound sounds better out output 2 to a Matrix power amp then to a traditional cab. I use Q12s for FRFR for the effects only which I route out Output 1. I use mixers to send the signals to the outputs I want. The traditional speakers can do their thing while the FRFR can deal with the effects. I have yet to find an IR cab that sounds like the real thing through FRFR. I've gotten really close with cablab but nothing moves your pants like a MESA 4x12 with V30s or a 5150 4x12 with G12H25s.
 
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maschoff said:
I have yet to find an IR cab that sounds like the real thing through FRFR. I've gotten really close with cablab but nothing moves your pants like a MESA 4x12 with V30s or a 5150 4x12 with G12H25s.
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Try far-field IRs if you can find any, it's very convincing.
 
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