External switching mods

TheMonkii

TheMonkii

Member
This may have been covered elsewhere, but after a lot of research I haven't been been able to get a specific answer to a roadblock I'm encountering with my current setup. Hopefully someone with a deeper tech understanding of the AX8 could help?

The scenario is:
I currently have a simple 2x on/off switch external box (with status indicator leds) that is assigned via the internal midi to the 'Rec' and 'Play' functions of the looper block. So when I need to loop certain riffs/passages live (we are a three piece). I can quickly hit Rec and those 16 beats will then autoplay, but only be heard when ever I select the scene where the looper output is active.

Which means i can record a riff elsewhere in the performance on one scene (say one of the verses), for it to then only playback when I select a new scene when it comes something like a solo section. Pretty handy.

The big drawback of this setup is having to constantly be aware of the current on/off position of the external pedal - if I come to hit Rec/Play and it's already engaged, needs a double tap to bring back to the 'off' position ready to be fired again if needed. Sometimes the looping/performing margins can be very tight or rhythmic, so all the double tapping and second guessing can throw you off...

So my question is.... is it even possible to build an external switch that can have similar functionality to the on-board switches without it being physically part of the system? In terms of the external switch registering the current position of the function you are controlling - on or off.

For example: 'Rec' is not active until i step on it (so the LEDs are off on Rec and Play), I step on Rec and the looper block and it auto-records for the 16 beats set (Rec LED is lit - Play is not), then autoplays once it's done it's thing (Rec LED off and Play is on).

I understand that this would probably be a PCB based switch with either some kind of onboard controller chip, or possibly just brute forced through a small external midi controller maybe? But is it even possible to send those kind of instructions from the AX8 itself without it being a proprietary Fractal product?

Sorry for the long winded post, hopefully someone could point me in the right direction 🤘
 
A small midi controller would probably be better... But it would need to have "smarts" to integrate with the Fractal.

Something like the Voes MX-5 might work for this.

Maybe @voes can confirm?
 
TheMonkii said:
This may have been covered elsewhere, but after a lot of research I haven't been been able to get a specific answer to a roadblock I'm encountering with my current setup. Hopefully someone with a deeper tech understanding of the AX8 could help?

The scenario is:
I currently have a simple 2x on/off switch external box (with status indicator leds) that is assigned via the internal midi to the 'Rec' and 'Play' functions of the looper block. So when I need to loop certain riffs/passages live (we are a three piece). I can quickly hit Rec and those 16 beats will then autoplay, but only be heard when ever I select the scene where the looper output is active.

Which means i can record a riff elsewhere in the performance on one scene (say one of the verses), for it to then only playback when I select a new scene when it comes something like a solo section. Pretty handy.

The big drawback of this setup is having to constantly be aware of the current on/off position of the external pedal - if I come to hit Rec/Play and it's already engaged, needs a double tap to bring back to the 'off' position ready to be fired again if needed. Sometimes the looping/performing margins can be very tight or rhythmic, so all the double tapping and second guessing can throw you off...

So my question is.... is it even possible to build an external switch that can have similar functionality to the on-board switches without it being physically part of the system? In terms of the external switch registering the current position of the function you are controlling - on or off.

For example: 'Rec' is not active until i step on it (so the LEDs are off on Rec and Play), I step on Rec and the looper block and it auto-records for the 16 beats set (Rec LED is lit - Play is not), then autoplays once it's done it's thing (Rec LED off and Play is on).

I understand that this would probably be a PCB based switch with either some kind of onboard controller chip, or possibly just brute forced through a small external midi controller maybe? But is it even possible to send those kind of instructions from the AX8 itself without it being a proprietary Fractal product?

Sorry for the long winded post, hopefully someone could point me in the right direction 🤘
Click to expand...
..and it would need to fit in the same space as the current box (bottom right, two switch blue light)
 

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I am using latching switches currently, but didn't want to start ordering specific parts if it wasn't gaining me any functionality.
My understanding was the non-latching still has an on/off position per-say, which the AX8 still reads as such. So in use, the switch feels right, but the AX8 doesn't have the independence to change the state of the function until the switch is pressed again?
 
TheMonkii said:
I am using latching switches currently, but didn't want to start ordering specific parts if it wasn't gaining me any functionality.
My understanding was the non-latching still has an on/off position per-say, which the AX8 still reads as such. So in use, the switch feels right, but the AX8 doesn't have the independence to change the state of the function until the switch is pressed again?
Click to expand...
Non-latching (Momentary) switches don't have an on/off state, they are either normally-open or normally-closed. Normally-closed should work without any additional configurations in the AX8 setup menu.
 
JoKeR III said:
Non-latching (Momentary) switches don't have an on/off state, they are either normally-open or normally-closed. Normally-closed should work without any additional configurations in the AX8 setup menu.
Click to expand...
Sorry, thought by non-latching we were refering to the physical mechanism (non-clicking/latching switch). But the momentary switch would only be recognised as either being open or closed depending on if you're stepping on it or not? Like a kill switch?
 
TheMonkii said:
Sorry, thought by non-latching we were refering to the physical mechanism (non-clicking/latching switch). But the momentary switch would only be recognised as either being open or closed depending on if you're stepping on it or not? Like a kill switch?
Click to expand...
A non-latching switch is a momentary switch, the switches on the AX8 are momentary switches. Their configuration in the AX8 determines how they operate within the AX8 environment, either as latching or momentary (non-latching) switches.

The AX8 is only needing a brief interruption of the signal from the switch. When using a latching switch with the AX8 and pressing it once, the AX8 sees the switch remaining open and will not complete the assigned function until the switch is closed (or vice-versa). This is why a latching switch needs to be pressed twice to perform a function if used as an external switch with the AX8.
 
JoKeR III said:
A non-latching switch is a momentary switch, the switches on the AX8 are momentary switches. Their configuration in the AX8 determines how they operate within the AX8 environment, either as latching or momentary (non-latching) switches.

The AX8 is only needing a brief interruption of the signal from the switch. When using a latching switch with the AX8 and pressing it once, the AX8 sees the switch remaining open and will not complete the assigned function until the switch is closed (or vice-versa). This is why a latching switch needs to be pressed twice to perform a function if used as an external switch with the AX8.
Click to expand...
Just did a quick test with a straight momentary switch setup as latching on the AX8. But there's no way for a momentary switch to know/or indicate whether it's 'on' or 'off' according to the assignment on the AX8 (as you do with the onboard nonlatching switches)?

As all it's doing is tripping the function on/off on the AX8 everytime you step on it? The inclusion of visual feedback with on/off LEDs would be an important factor for me.
 
TheMonkii said:
Just did a quick test with a straight momentary switch setup as latching on the AX8. But there's no way for a momentary switch to know/or indicate whether it's 'on' or 'off' according to the assignment on the AX8 (as you do with the onboard nonlatching switches)?

As all it's doing is tripping the function on/off on the AX8 everytime you step on it? The inclusion of visual feedback with on/off LEDs would be an important factor for me.
Click to expand...
You could assign any functions that you don't need an LED indicator for to the external switch and use the onboard switches for functions that you need to have an on/off indicator.
 
JoKeR III said:
You could assign any functions that you don't need an LED indicator for to the external switch and use the onboard switches for functions that you need to have an on/off indicator.
Click to expand...
That would actually be quite a good hack, but the looper block interface on AX8 needs to be active to display the function indicators and you can't cross the streams on that one.

If I linked in a different effect (say a spare EQ block) to display something when the looper functions are active, then I lose visual functionality on the main board - which is already being used for other dynamic control switching switching options (midi, scene and control switches 1 & 2 are all being used for things like stereo/mono loop split for doubling rhythms, L/R channel amp activation and various momentary filters across the current set).

I suppose what this is coming down to, is that I'm going to need a boffin to build me something custom to fit that space and functionality... Damn, I had hoped it may have been a little easier to solve than that - or more cost effective at the very least 😆

Thank you for the pointers though 👍
 
TheMonkii said:
Sorry, thought by non-latching we were refering to the physical mechanism (non-clicking/latching switch). But the momentary switch would only be recognised as either being open or closed depending on if you're stepping on it or not? Like a kill switch?
Click to expand...
They’re the same thing.

You want normally closed, non-latching switches. That’s the best switch configuration for external switches.
 
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TheMonkii said:
I suppose what this is coming down to, is that I'm going to need a boffin to build me something custom to fit that space and functionality... Damn, I had hoped it may have been a little easier to solve than that - or more cost effective at the very least 😆
Click to expand...
The problem you still have is the external unit "knowing" the initial state when you change presets, for example.

You'll need a device with "smarts" built-in that has been designed to not only control the Fractal but to poll/query it to get the current state.

I'm not sure if Fractal made it's proprietary sysex available for AX-8 or not... But you'd need access to that.
 
unix-guy said:
The problem you still have is the external unit "knowing" the initial state when you change presets, for example.

You'll need a device with "smarts" built-in that has been designed to not only control the Fractal but to poll/query it to get the current state.

I'm not sure if Fractal made it's proprietary sysex available for AX-8 or not... But you'd need access to that.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is the point I'd got to after a lot of trial and error.

I'm sure it would only need to be a hyper simple midi channel interface of some sort? But I haven't been able to work out if the LEDs status could be 'wired'. They couldn't be driven by the switch, as that is effectively perpetual and has no binary positions (so would only light up when pressed - or vise versa depending on the type of switch used). So you're then relying on a circuit created on the AX8 side to enable the LED on/off, but is that even part of the signal that goes down the cable?
 
One option is to take two functions you don't need indicator lights to use and move those functions to the external footswitches and then repurpose two of the AX8s switches for your functions where you need indicator lights.
 
iaresee said:
One option is to take two functions you don't need indicator lights to use and move those functions to the external footswitches and then repurpose two of the AX8s switches for your functions where you need indicator lights.
Click to expand...
This would be the logical next step, but I'm already doing that with other functions on the set-up :(

The first three switches are standard across the patches. Number 4 is used as a dynamic toggle for CS functions. Then 5-8 alternate between extra scenes per song, control switches and effect toggle display hacks.

With the 'midi out' of the AX8 firing the outboard stereo loop in/out, I don't think the midi route would be feasible without adding to an already tight board. I assume you would need to use both in and out on the AX8 but would then also have to provide a 'through' for the control of the external loop.

Looks like a compromise is in order... 'normally closed - non-latching' footswitches to replace the stand-in latching ones on the current box, forget about LED feedback and re-work the presets so I can insert a un-used, low cpu block that's tied into the Looper block. Something like an PEQ that will bypass on/off with the looper rec/play activation.
 
I'll make another nudge for the Voes MX-5. It would fit in your board right in front of the AX-8 and you could even use it for scenes and then use on board switches for what you're trying to do here.
 
unix-guy said:
I'll make another nudge for the Voes MX-5. It would fit in your board right in front of the AX-8 and you could even use it for scenes and then use on board switches for what you're trying to do here.
Click to expand...
Thanks man, I guess I'm trying to milk the AX8 for everything it has to keep things as 'simple' (ha ha) as possible. I've managed quite a few work arounds and fixes for the specific uses this rig needs without adding any extra powered units. The switching and cross control that I've set up means it would need a full factory reset to used in any other setting. As a lot of the internal midi controls have been changed to accomodate. So these last two switches were going to be the perfect little cherry on top...
 
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