exported tonematch doesn't sound the same

Rhiza

Inspired
Hi guys, I did a tonematch of a isolated stem and I got something that sounded even better than the original!
Anyway, I exported the tonematch to a user cab and I noticed that it doesn't sound the same, the high end is a little off.
Exporting is as high resolution, 50% smoothing and using it as a cab, no mic. Just doesn't sound the same.
Am I doing something wrong?
 
In my opinion, the Tone Match feature hasn't sounded good since several firmwares ago. It used to be easier, quicker, and sounded nearly identical to the original tone. Now, things just don't jive. I'm hoping it gets fixed with one of the future firmware updates because I really enjoyed using that feature.
 
when you set it at 50%, i'm presuming you were also using a cab sim right? because tone match with no cab sim set below 100% would leave in some of the brittle highs of having no cabinet.

i would suggest you use 100% tonematch without a cabinet to make the preset, then export the tonematch and you won't have any problems using that same tonematch block/settings in another preset without needing a cab.
 
Nope, not using any cab, just amp and tonematch, I then duplicated that preset into another slot and removed the tonematch and used the exported IR from the tonematch to a cab.
Just doesn't sound the same.
I found out that the problem is the smoothing, It's set to 50% percent and it seems to me that when you export the tonematch to a IR, it doesn't include the smooth setting.
Oh well.
 
i can't imagine using smoothing of less than 100%. anything less would allow some of the original sound to blend in (fizz and brittleness). by design, i would have not allowed saving it any other way than 100%.
 
Are you sure that we are talking about the same thing? Having smoothing at 100% causes it to be bright and unpleasent to the ears.
 
yep, sorry...i had it backwards. i was thinking about a tonematch eq plugin, it needed to be at 100% to be right on the money.
 
In my opinion, the Tone Match feature hasn't sounded good since several firmwares ago. It used to be easier, quicker, and sounded nearly identical to the original tone. Now, things just don't jive. I'm hoping it gets fixed with one of the future firmware updates because I really enjoyed using that feature.

You are spot on, I think it was best in firmware 9. Once it was updated in 10, it has been much more work. What I tend to find is that I have to keep redoing the tone match sometimes for 30 minutes until finally it takes. What the tone match seems to do now is get tinny, and sound un musical, and in the past it would take like a minute or something to get amazing results. I hope now that we have axe edit and the major firmware update, both which are great. I hope that Cliff will revisit the TM block and squish the issues with it once and for all.
 
Spazi, to clarify what they are telling you here, the SMOOTHING setting is not exported... just the RAW tone match.
 
if you import his raw tonematch setting, could you then change the smoothing setting and get the results he is after?
 
Spazi, to clarify what they are telling you here, the SMOOTHING setting is not exported... just the RAW tone match.

M@, I just skimmed through the release notes looking for something else and I stumbled upon this:

10.09
...
Fixed exported Tone Match data derived prior to any processing, i.e. before Smoothing and Amount.
...


The way I read that is that the export should include smoothing (but didn't prior to 10.09). That would make sense because we could choose how we want the TM exported.
 
Nope, not using any cab, just amp and tonematch, I then duplicated that preset into another slot and removed the tonematch and used the exported IR from the tonematch to a cab.
Just doesn't sound the same.
I found out that the problem is the smoothing, It's set to 50% percent and it seems to me that when you export the tonematch to a IR, it doesn't include the smooth setting.
Oh well.
I ran into this today on Quantum 2.0 beta. Not sure if bug, but issue appears to exist. The smoothing does not appear to export to the IR along with the rest of the tone match data. It was easy to verify. Just export with smoothing, use that IR in a preset, listen, go back to preset where I tone match and reduce smoothing to zero...sounds the same.

The tone match preset has only tone match block in it. The "audition" preset only has a cab block with the exported tone match IR in it.
 
I guess I wouldn't be shocked if it does not take smoothing into account. I guess one thing that interests me is how/why do people use this feature?

If I use a TM as an IR: I have to export it, load it into a cab slot, and then edit the preset to replace the TM with a cab pointed at the IR of the thing I already have in my TM. So, now I have IR slot borked for this one preset which I could have just kept as is and I can't adjust 'smooth' etc later... In that scenario, I seem to have lost more than I've gained. So, I assume there's a use case where IRs are preferable to TM blocks. CPU maybe? I almost never hit CPU so maybe that's it...

I have actually been considering going the reverse route on some of my presets... using cab lab3 to set a custom cab mix per preset in the scratch slots and then matching it with a TM block and deleting the cab; to essentially give my MkII an infinite number of cab slots.

Anyway, I assume some people may be using TM differently so it would be interesting to hear why others find this process appealing and learn something new. ;)
 
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I just use the tone match block as a cab block. I even save the block to the library so I can use the setings on other presets. This way you can technically have 3 cab blocks.....
 
I just use the tone match block as a cab block. I even save the block to the libar so i can uSE the setings on other presets. This way you can technically have 3 cab blocks.....
That was an idea I had but I didn't try it because I thought the waveform captured in the tone match block would flush out of memory when axe-fx was rebooted. It stays in there?

If so, then we need a away to import the tone match block into another preset. I also checked that, but on front panel of axe-fx the tone match is not listed in the blocks you can import into a preset. So...you pretty much have to do tone match in your destination preset and that tone match block is trapped there. Otherwise you'd be doing it the long way, duplicating tone match presets and import blocks into those presets...bizarre workaround.
 
The reference is not saved but the tone matching data is saved with the preset.

Just copy the preset. delete all the blocks except the TM and save it. then you can use that as a starting template as many times as you want.
 
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