EVH's original Plexi and the FAS Brit Brown amp

Well when they were kids Ed was turning everything up wide open, blowing up amps, throwing his guitar into the back of a car, dropping sh!t, and then beg borrow and stealing to get it fixed for the next show.

Not quite the modern geek that leaves the plastic on the front of their gear and is worried about getting a single scratch on something.
 
Well when they were kids Ed was turning everything up wide open, blowing up amps, throwing his guitar into the back of a car, dropping sh!t, and then beg borrow and stealing to get it fixed for the next show.

Not quite the modern geek that leaves the plastic on the front of their gear and is worried about getting a single scratch on something.

Yeah, things really have changed. I remember as a guitar player in high school in the mid-80's, you could only dream of having some of the gear that is out now. Everyone started with crappy gear and worked their way up. Now kids go out and buy a $1700 7-string and Mesa stack before they can play a note.

I used to sit and stare at advertisements for Charvel and Jackson guitars and salivate at the thought of ever owning one. Seemed like I would get to another planet quicker than I would own one of those. Guitar Center didn't exist back then. When you went into a guitar store, you had to know exactly what you wanted, had to take your belt off so you wouldn't scratch the guitar, and the guy would stand by you the entire time you were playing with a "yeah right" smirk on his face. :)
 
Guitar Center didn't exist back then. When you went into a guitar store, you had to know exactly what you wanted, had to take your belt off so you wouldn't scratch the guitar, and the guy would stand by you the entire time you were playing with a "yeah right" smirk on his face. :)

I remember in the late 70's I used to go to the original Gruhn's Guitars in Nashville, TN, USA... when they were in that shotgun room, tiny little location.

They let you play *almost* every instrument in the place... no worries.... 50's sunburst les pauls... no casters... you name it... except they had one les paul 3 pickup custom black beauty under glass... I believe it was from the 50's, dead mint, might have even had tags.
 
Yeah, things really have changed. I remember as a guitar player in high school in the mid-80's, you could only dream of having some of the gear that is out now. Everyone started with crappy gear and worked their way up. Now kids go out and buy a $1700 7-string and Mesa stack before they can play a note.

I used to sit and stare at advertisements for Charvel and Jackson guitars and salivate at the thought of ever owning one. Seemed like I would get to another planet quicker than I would own one of those.

Yeah, much of that kind of gear was simply not available locally. You either made a trip and found it in a big city music store, or you didn't. I remember going to New York City specifically to visit Manny's and Sam Ash and just DROOLING at the guitars and amps available there. It was like walking into Santa's workshop. I imagine the pickings on gear in LA were probably better than what we had, but honestly there weren't THAT many options like there are now. Probably why EVH ended up with just a plain old super lead and a chop shop guitar.

Today, we just go to Sweatwater, Musician's Fiend, or any other online storefront and click away. Top quality gear is available for the asking. The Axe-Fx? I dreamed of such units back in the 90's. In the 80's? A two channel switching amp was a big freakin deal. And solid state was touted as the new big thing. Ugh!
 
THX, Those two sound clips you posted in this thread, very good examples of the Brown Sound, can be used for Tone Matching into the Axe Fx ll. I'd do but I suck at it so hopefully someone will step up to the plate and do it. Anyone?
 
Not quite the modern geek that leaves the plastic on the front of their gear and is worried about getting a single scratch on something.

I think that should be the next big quote! Man you guys are bringing back memories and you're exactly right. Back then I could only dream of owning a Marshall, Strat or Les Paul. I'm sure Ed was the same way. I would imagine he fell into gear and ideas for sounds like everyone else did back then. Reading mags, jamming with people, gigging and experimenting. Definitely a much slower process than today's world. I would like to hear how he stumbled upon the variac idea as well as using a phaser and flanger the way he did.

Bringing things back on topic I subscribe to the Variac theory. His #1 is probably fairly stock (how stock can an amp that old be now?). He dropped the voltage and biased accordingly.

I got a bit giddy when I was able to change the virtual 100 watt plexi into a very mod'd/modern sounding amp by changing values based on what's been posted in this thread. And I'm not versed in amp circuits! I'm sure someone who knows what these values mean could do a much better job in much less time.
 
I remember the first electric guitar I bought in high school and how I thought my amp was broke because I hit and chord and only clean strumming came out of the speaker. I talked to a friend of mine (Robert Keeley who now famously makes guitar pedals) and he said "dude, you need a distortion pedal" and I was like "what the hell for?". I completely didn't understand. He let me borrow his BOSS Heavy Metal pedal (or maybe Turbo Distortion) and was like "yeah!!!".

Later on we swapped guitars. I got his Ibanez Roadstar and he got my Aria Pro II "The Cat". :) Those were the days. Actually one little sidenote. I actually started playing guitar after I heard Robert Keeley play "Eruption" at our high school's talent show called "Rock Rush". I wanted to play distorted guitar. :)
 
I would like to hear how he stumbled upon the variac idea

I'm not 100%, but I think I remember reading that Eddie was getting yelled at by all the club owners because the Marshall was just too damn loud. He stumbled on the idea while looking for a solution that would allow him to get that tone with less overall volume ....
 
I would like to hear how he stumbled upon the variac idea

The way I understand it, he wanted to run the amp at higher volume for longer without it overheating. Simple way to do that was to lower the voltage going in. Add to the fact that those early Marshalls weren't made for USA voltage of 115-120V but rather for closer to 100V, he dropped it to 90V, which was actually more in line with specs. The amp ran cooler at higher volumes for longer, and I think that's pretty much it.

There's a lot of debate on the significance of the variac within the rig. I think it's far too overblown...probably by Ed himself.

The other thing about his phaser....it's modded to be a treble booster. :) You ever hear his tone and think, man, there's no way he got that without a boost pedal. Guess what? He had one. Conveniently disguised as a phaser in front of the amp.

So basically, if you cut through all the BS and lies Ed told so people wouldn't catch on to what he was doing, he was simply boosting his amp up front, turned up LOUD, and running it cooler with a variac.
 
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Suhr's SL68 has an onboard Variac and it changes sound and feel quite drastically.

I'm thinking that the only way to be completely "Suhr" about the effect that a Variac would have on an amp, would be to model ( ie: measure ) the SL68 in both modes !

Wouldn't that be outstanding !
 
I'm thinking that the only way to be completely "Suhr" about the effect that a Variac would have on an amp, would be to model ( ie: measure ) the SL68 in both modes !

Wouldn't that be outstanding !
I've spoken to Cliff about that actually, and his answer, which I totally agree with, was very simple. the 68 is more or less a rebuild SuperLead from...'68. we've got the real deal modeled in the Axe already, I believe it's a '69 SuperLead. only significant difference really being the Variac feature.
if there are any other real differences, they'd be very small and nothing that couldn't be dialed in... (apart from the Variac ;) )
 
I've spoken to Cliff about that actually, and his answer, which I totally agree with, was very simple. the 68 is more or less a rebuild SuperLead from...'68. we've got the real deal modeled in the Axe already, I believe it's a '69 SuperLead. only significant difference really being the Variac feature.
if there are any other real differences, they'd be very small and nothing that couldn't be dialed in... (apart from the Variac ;) )

I completely agree w/ you .... The SL 68 is John Suhr's "idealized" 12,xxx Plexi. I'm sure he changed the filtering to his liking ....



But the point of this thread seems to be the Variac ....;)
 
I'm very happy with FW 13 and I'm really enjoying the improved amp modeling and the ultra-res cabs, however it would be nice if Cliff could take a stand on the variac and mod5 issue. A simple answer would suffice. I wouldn't even be mad if it turns out that the variac and the mod5 are not worthy enough (i.e. do not alter the tone in a significant way) to be included in future firmwares and I would totally get it if, at this point in time, the digital implementation of these two proposals is not as contrivable as we think it is. An answer is all we need right now :)
 
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EVEN EVH himself can't do it now that I think about it. I can still recognize him because of his style and how he dials things in, but his tone varies with gear, venue, etc.

This is very true. Even though his now "signature" equipment (the amp / cab of his 5150 III and his Wolfgang guitar) are great pieces of equipment and he's got them tweaked and dialed into his own personal preferences, they lack that unbridled, raw energy that was on the original VH recordings / tours (and I'm talking strictly about tone here, not playing style or technique). It probably had something to do with all his old equipment being on the very edge of falling apart and/or exploding at any given moment :) ! Eddie was / is a tone chaser. He tried all kinds of crazy things and if it worked and he liked it, he kept using it. I mean using a cordless, electric drill on your guitar for an effect, WTF ?!?

Note to Cliff: Can we please, have a cordless, electric drill effect added to the next firmware. Please! Please! :lol :lol
 
Here's a sample. First half is wet and the second totally dry. Hoping to give an idea of the dynamics and how the amp feels and sounds at different volumes and such. This is literally tinkering with all of the mistakes in tact. You've been warned.

Here are the changes that I've made. It's a rather rude and crude amp and needs improvements. I'm just half assed guessing at what to change based on what I'm reading. If anyone more versed in these things wants to offer some suggestions I'm all ears!

100 watt Plexi amp
Input Drive 5.43
MV 10
Base, Mid, Treble, Pres = 10
Bright = On

Dynamics: Supply Sag 1.34, B+ Time Constant 30ms
Power: Pwr Tube Bias .827, Triode Hardness 3.543

OH MAR-CB D-120 SS SP - mic set to null - Hi Res - lvl neg18db
OH 412-MAR-CB-V30-Studio - Mic set to null - Ultra Rez - lvl 0db



would love to try that patch A/B with the one that ProgressiveRocco did recently
 
would love to try that patch A/B with the one that ProgressiveRocco did recently

Why would you do that and not compare the two to VH tracks? :)

I'll post the patch when I'm done. But keep in mind that in the beginning of this thread I said that this was more academic than anything. There are other amps in the Axe that already cop the Eddie tone such as the Friedman's and the Brit Brown. I just wanted to see if I could create that sound with the virtual vintage components. :)
 
Eddie’s Plexi # 12301 ( VH 1 to Carnal Knowledge ):

· Split cathode V1a 250uF / 820,V1b .68 / 820
· All coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
· bright cap on vol pot 0,005uF
· 470k mixer resistors
· 470pF mixer bypass cap
· Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
· 33k / 556pF tone stack combo
· 47k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
· 220k bias splitter resistors
· uF cap on presence control
· 47pf on PI


John Suhr ( v2 fat cap and other mods ) – 1[SUP]st[/SUP] restoration:

· Split cathode V1a 250uF / 820,V1b .68 / 820
· All coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
· bright cap on vol pot 0,005uF
· 470k mixer resistors
· 500pF mixer bypass cap
· Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
· 33k / 500pF tone stack combo
· 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
· 220k bias splitter resistors
· uF cap on presence control
· .022uf output couplers
· 47pf on PI


Dave Friedman ( latest restoration ):

· Split cathode V1a 250uF / 820,V1b .68 / 820
· All coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
· bright cap on vol pot 0,005uF
· 470k mixer resistors
· 500pF mixer bypass cap
· Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF ( back to stock )
· 33k / 500pF tone stack combo
· 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
· 220k bias splitter resistors
· uF cap on presence control
· .022uf output couplers
· 47pf on PI

Cliff ..., just curious how close your "built-by-ear" Brit Brown was/is to any of these specs ?

THANKS !
 
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