EVH's original Plexi and the FAS Brit Brown amp

Unfortunately Mark Abrahamian passed away about a year or so ago. There were a lot of discussions involving him on the Metroamp forum. There were some guys there that had amps modded by him. Maybe that would be a good place to start looking. I believe his amps sounded better than most trying to get early vh tone.

I personally think Mark's amp mods (and his incredible talent) sounded more like early VH tone than Eddie himself does today. If you've never heard these amps, here's 2 quick links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sco_gLFas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaXTPKmMtC8

I would LOVE to see one of these modded amps added to the Axe-FX II.

Also, there's a good discussion of Eddie's early hardware linked into this current thread in the "Axe-FX II Recordings" Forum (Narzugon's playing is amazing here as well).

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-recordings/80693-van-halen-mean-streets.html

In this thread, they discuss how Eddie's cabs were equipped with two G12M's and two JBL K120's per cab. Got me to wondering if this would be a possible future Axe-FX II feature, ie being able to specify what speakers / drivers were installed in each cab (much like we can now do with virtual "tubes"). I realize the interactions of the drivers and cab boxes would be extremely complex, but hey, it's ok to wish, right ;)

FWIW, I've been intrigued with Eddie's early sound since the early 80's. I even researched and wrote a term paper on his influence on "rock guitar" (including equipment / gear) around '85 or '86. If I remember correctly, a Variac was definitely used and his amps were modded to run very hot. Not that this is some earth shattering news, just that it was a lot closer in time to the original sources.
 
Unfortunately Mark Abrahamian passed away about a year or so ago. There were a lot of discussions involving him on the Metroamp forum. There were some guys there that had amps modded by him. Maybe that would be a good place to start looking. I believe his amps sounded better than most trying to get early vh tone.
unfortunately yes. Mark was a great guy. Metroamp forum actually may be a good idea to start looking. iirc, he was actually quite open about what he did mod-wise...
 
Here's a sample. First half is wet and the second totally dry. Hoping to give an idea of the dynamics and how the amp feels and sounds at different volumes and such. This is literally tinkering with all of the mistakes in tact. You've been warned.

Here are the changes that I've made. It's a rather rude and crude amp and needs improvements. I'm just half assed guessing at what to change based on what I'm reading. If anyone more versed in these things wants to offer some suggestions I'm all ears!

100 watt Plexi amp
Input Drive 5.43
MV 10
Base, Mid, Treble, Pres = 10
Bright = On

Dynamics: Supply Sag 1.34, B+ Time Constant 30ms
Power: Pwr Tube Bias .827, Triode Hardness 3.543

OH MAR-CB D-120 SS SP - mic set to null - Hi Res - lvl neg18db
OH 412-MAR-CB-V30-Studio - Mic set to null - Ultra Rez - lvl 0db



Sounded pretty good! The tone was slightly trebly/harsh but you are definitely on the right track. I think you captured that tight, percussive VH tone with that great growl. Like others mentioned, if you can get some Greenbacks in there and tweak some stuff a bit, you'll be there. Don't forget to mess with the speaker page highs and lows as well.
 
FWIW, I've been intrigued with Eddie's early sound since the early 80's. I even researched and wrote a term paper on his influence on "rock guitar" (including equipment / gear) around '85 or '86. If I remember correctly, a Variac was definitely used and his amps were modded to run very hot. Not that this is some earth shattering news, just that it was a lot closer in time to the original sources.

Thanks for the Kudos THX. I've been approaching this with the Variac in mind. Did you ever read where Eddie initially came up with the idea of dropping the voltage on his amp? I remember reading that he initially tried it with a dimmer switch.

romanianreaper said:
Sounded pretty good! The tone was slightly trebly/harsh but you are definitely on the right track. I think you captured that tight, percussive VH tone with that great growl. Like others mentioned, if you can get some Greenbacks in there and tweak some stuff a bit, you'll be there. Don't forget to mess with the speaker page highs and lows as well.

I agree on all accounts Reap. That first version was extremely trebly. I ironed that out today by reducing a ridiculously high Damping setting that I had and smoothing things out a bit with Motor Drive as well as Speaker Drive. See what you think about this new take. Oh... I also ditched the D120 and the V30 in favor of a Hires OH cab. OH MAR-CB M-PR-55 SS SP. I'll post a new clip in a bit.
 
Thanks for the Kudos THX. I've been approaching this with the Variac in mind. Did you ever read where Eddie initially came up with the idea of dropping the voltage on his amp? I remember reading that he initially tried it with a dimmer switch.

Kudos well deserverd, Narzugon! Great technique and you really nailed the "feel" of Mean Streets.

I've heard the dimmer switch story, but IIRC, that was one of the "later" versions of Eddie's recounting of the creation of the brown sound. The earliest stuff I remember reading was that he initially used the Variac, but it's been like 30 years ago, so my memory's not what it used to be. I think as far as the idea of the Variac, he was really just trying anything he could think of. If it sounded good, he kept it.

I ran across my paper a couple of months ago when I was cleaning out my attic. I'll try to do some digging to find it again (we're remodeling our house and everything is in boxes, so it may take some real digging). Once I find it, I'll post anything that may be of interest.
 
Version #2



After listening to this I hear that the low E gets kinda saturated during the Jamie's Crying riff. Except for that the low end seemed pretty tight. Still not there!

Edit: Actually, it's not the low E at all. It's the B and B flat during the walk down. Odd.
 
Why does nobody sound like Jimi Hendrix? Or Robin Trower? Or, Stevie Ray Vaughn? Or, Eric Clapton. Or, for that matter Eddie Van Halen?

Hint: it's not the equipment.

Those guys have a touch. That's why they're famous. Not everyone can pull that sound off. Buy all the equipment you want, even the exact same stuff all those guys use - you still won't sound like them. In fact, if they showed up in your basement to play your Behringer V22, they'd sound like themselves while you sucked hind tit.

There's a story out on the 'net somewhere that talks about Ted Nugent wanking on EVH's rig, then hearing EVH wank on it, and they were worlds apart. Ted sounds like Ted, and Eddie sounds like Eddie. The gear doesn't matter - technique is the thing.

Well I think thats barely true, Ive heard tons of amazing guys on this forum playing and sounding vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvery close to Eddie. Sure If one was playing nugent stuff they'd sound more nugenty. But that whole tone is in the finger stuff only goes so far.
 
unfortunately yes. Mark was a great guy. Metroamp forum actually may be a good idea to start looking. iirc, he was actually quite open about what he did mod-wise...

I started a thread some months back and posted all the info I could get on Rockstah's & Novosibir's mod 5. Here's the thread:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/70200-mod5-rockstah-larry-schematic-included.html

Hope dies last, but I don't think that the mod will be included in the near future, as it's too similar to a JCM 800. The advice given to me was to change the tonestack to a CAE 3+ and move the tone frequency to about 625Hz.

It would be amazing if we had the choice between mod 5 and the arredondo mod...

Edit: Someone removed the original pdf file that shows the mod5, but I'm going to link to an uploaded version here...

http://diyguitaramp.tistory.com/406

And here's a link to download the pdf:

http://snk.to/f-cdc5ym5k
 
Last edited:
I wonder if requests for the VH1 sound to amp makers or modeler makers is like when someone requests Free Bird or Brown Eyed Girl at a pub gig? :)

I am still fascinated by that tone though... never forget the first time I heard Eruption, we just kept playing that track over and over... had to pickup the needle and move it... back in the day :)
 
Best example of a clone I've ever heard was a Marshall with the Rockstah mod... unbelievably close tone and unbelievably good playing and technique he had...

IIRC, he is acknowledged has the one having the closest replication of the VH1 tone. Hearing his recordings and the real thing were hard to pick out in a blind test.

He was a god at metro amp.

R.I.P.
 
Well I think thats barely true, Ive heard tons of amazing guys on this forum playing and sounding vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvery close to Eddie. Sure If one was playing nugent stuff they'd sound more nugenty. But that whole tone is in the finger stuff only goes so far.

+1 on this, I feel that gear makes up 90% of the tone and the fingers are the remander and more related to the style and technique. One can have the exact gear that Ed uses and if he doesn't play with Ed's style and technique even though it has that "Brown Sound" it's not going to sound like VH. All of the tonal elements have to come together in order for that stew to sound good.

So the fact that Ed sounds like Ed no mater what he is playing through is correct but I believe it refers more to style and technique. The guitar tone that you hear has a lot more to do with the gear being used.
 
Arrgghh, MORAL OF THE STORY: Ed is one very eccentric guy. Everything about him. His tone choices, his signal path, his protection of his findings, his playing style, everything. He was unique. Now, quit obsessing over him, and go practice! LOL :lol

Well that's pretty cool info but some of us like to talk about Ed's eccentricity, it's a sort of hobby or obsession just like your 8 paragraph post that you took time to write :lol. And the Saldano Circuit that he may or may not have duped is fairly well known.

I doubt anyone here that posts on this forum knows Ed really well, I know I don't but the sounds that he created are haunting for anyone that picks up a guitar and likes to play rock. No one is perfect and I think what goes around... well you know I think we all have seen what happens.

I hear the frustation in your post but it is a public forum and we too have the right to post our thoughts on a subject to express our interests or lack of just as you have. It's all good man it's only text ;).
 
+1 on this, I feel that gear makes up 90% of the tone and the fingers are the remander and more related to the style and technique. One can have the exact gear that Ed uses and if he doesn't play with Ed's style and technique even though it has that "Brown Sound" it's not going to sound like VH. All of the tonal elements have to come together in order for that stew to sound good.

So the fact that Ed sounds like Ed no mater what he is playing through is correct but I believe it refers more to style and technique. The guitar tone that you hear has a lot more to do with the gear being used.
I agree with your sentiment. I like to think I have been playing and listening long enough that I can, for the most part, distinguish what is coming from the player's style and technique versus some things which are mostly gear dependent. There are players whose technique and style I like (or at least respect) but who have never dialed in tones or crafted setups I personally find inspiring. At the same time there are players who do not have the ultimate technique but manage monstrous tones.

But, for tones with significant distortion or FX and specific routing, the gear can be a huge component of the sound if you are listening at a very deep level. Example: People copping VHI tones without a real (or decent emulation of): tape echo, plate verb, phase 90, Plexi amp style distortion, or Greenbacks do not sound tend to be able to get VH I tones to my ear, no matter how good they cop Ed's style. EVEN EVH himself can't do it now that I think about it. I can still recognize him because of his style and how he dials things in, but his tone varies with gear, venue, etc.

I would say that some musical forms tend toward guitar tones that are indeed LESS gear dependent so the weight of each factor varies. But the heavier you get (Distortion == Lots of Harmonic Content) and/or FX dependent you get (Can't sound like U2 with just your fingers) the more weight the gear gets in my book. Sure, if you play a style where 90% of people play a strat into a Fender Deluxe, it may seem that way and it's a romantic idea that Fingers==Magic. But in the real world it does not hold water for me.
 
Last edited:
I agree with your sentiment. I like to think I have been playing and listening long enough that I can, for the most part, distinguish what is coming from the player's style and technique versus some things which are mostly gear dependent. There are players whose technique and style I like (or at least respect) but who have never dialed in tones or crafted setups I personally find inspiring. At the same time there are players who do not have the ultimate technique but manage monstrous tones.

But, for tones with significant distortion or FX and specific routing, the gear can be a huge component of the sound if you are listening at a very deep level. Example: People copping VHI tones without a real (or decent emulation of): tape echo, plate verb, phase 90, Plexi amp style distortion, or Greenbacks do not sound tend to be able to get VH I tones to my ear, no matter how good they cop Ed's style. EVEN EVH himself can't do it now that I think about it. I can still recognize him because of his style and how he dials things in, but his tone varies with gear, venue, etc.

I would say that some musical forms tend toward guitar tones that are indeed LESS gear dependent so the weight of each factor varies. But the heavier you get (Distortion == Lots of Harmonic Content) and/or FX dependent you get (Can't sound like U2 with just your fingers) the more weight the gear gets in my book. Sure, if you play a style where 90% of people play a strat into a Fender Deluxe, it may seem that way and it's a romantic idea that Fingers==Magic. But in the real world it does not hold water for me.

+1

I think this thread is about his tone on VH1, not being able to play like he did on VH1.

Seems like the tone threads about VH end up with lots of "its in his fingers" posts. Sure Ed is Ed and no but him sounds like him... now on to geeking out over mythical Marshall mods! :)
Two separate bananas... as they say :)
 
Everything is just a tool for him to achieve the tone he hears in his head. That tone could have changed through the years.

We are trying to pick up the pieces, but he wasn't like: - Hey, I need to lower the B+ ...

More like :
Ed: - I want this nasty tone with more harmonics, can you do it?
Engineer: ... [fixing it].
Ed: - Well I am still missing something lets run it hotter!
Engineer: Are you fing crazy? It will blow up.
Ed: Ok, can you make it not blow up?
Engineer: Yehh if we change the voltage.
Ed: How do we do that?
Engineer: With a variac.
Ed: Ok, get me one.


Ed knew what he wanted and each element was an addition to get him closer to that. He didn't try to link together a bunch of random pedals and amps. It was more like a journey.
If you want Ed's tone, you need to know what he was going for, not the elements. Doesn't matter what tools you use if they take you closer.
For me chasing his tone is not about copying his style and making me play like him. It's about trying to understand and get a feel of that, what he was going for.

The Axe-Fx helps me to understand the bigger picture in getting a good guitar sound.

IMHO
 
Back
Top Bottom