Eric Johnson high frequency roll off?

[fuzzy.pinetree]

I've gotten somewhat close to EJ's legendary Violin tone, it's not really that complex of a signal chain. BUT!! I cannot for the life of me get that round high end? His lead tone always sounds like the cab has a thick quilt between the speaker and the mic, cause the high end is liquid smooth and rounded but it doesn't sound like a high cut. I've tried with a high cut, but it cuts the wrong frequencies. So I'm starting to think it's something else. It's hard to explain, yall know what I'm talking about but it's hard to put in words.
It never feels like frequencies are "missing" in his tone, but it definitely doesn't sound like a Marshall and Tube Driver ONLY. There's some sort of EQ trickery being done, but what the heck could it even be?? I've been in a room with EJ playing his rig on three different occasions, and it sounds just like the Live In Europe tone. But I can't understand HOW. Marshalls are pretty bright in the high end. If you turn the treble down it gets muddy, if you turn down the guitar tone knob it doesn't roll off the right frequencies and the signal gets weaker, so what am I missing? I've been trying to achieve this for YEARS, and been working on it on the Axe FX for a while now.

Anyone been able to figure out that specific piece of the puzzle?? I don't want any "tone is in the fingers" comments, I'm talking strictly about the frequencies that lend themselves to the "muffled" aspect of his sound. Andy Timmons also achieves this to a point.

 

[RevDrucifer]

He sets the treble on his Plexi's to 0 for his lead tone, which is what I did when I made an EJ preset in my III.


He also dimes those amps, if they're mushing out when dimed, try playing with the bass. Certain IR's tend to mush out more tha others, so don't be afraid to go down that rabbit hole either!

 

[iaresee]

He sets the treble on his Plexi's to 0 for his lead tone, which is what I did when I made an EJ preset in my III.


He also dimes those amps, if they're mushing out when dimed, try playing with the bass. Certain IR's tend to mush out more tha others, so don't be afraid to go down that rabbit hole either!

Tasty! He uses really bright speakers too. We have some EJ captures in the factory IRs IIRC.

 

[fuzzy.pinetree]

Tasty! He uses really bright speakers too. We have some EJ captures in the factory IRs IIRC.

He sets the treble on his Plexi's to 0 for his lead tone, which is what I did when I made an EJ preset in my III.


He also dimes those amps, if they're mushing out when dimed, try playing with the bass. Certain IR's tend to mush out more tha others, so don't be afraid to go down that rabbit hole either!

So what I'm gettin here is amp set with no treble, combined with really bright speakers? That would actually make a lot of sense how he's simultaneously getting a wooly tone that cuts through the mix! I'll test that out! Also, any IR's you'd recommend would be awesome, I'm horrible at picking them. I always just stick with the same 5 cabs that I use on everything.

 

[iaresee]

Also, any IR's you'd recommend

Yea. There should be captures of the Eminence EJ-1240s in a 4x12 in the factory banks. Not at unit now but I can find them later.

Edit: EJ-1250, sorry. And a 2x12 too! I got it all wrong! I do know it's super bright. I remember when James Santiago contributed these captures to the II. Where'd he go? I liked the stuff he used to post here.



You can but the 1240 IRs from Eminence though: https://eminence-digital.com/produc...uitar-speaker-impulse-response-vintage-alnico

 

[Freds55]

He sets the treble on his Plexi's to 0 for his lead tone, which is what I did when I made an EJ preset in my III.


He also dimes those amps, if they're mushing out when dimed, try playing with the bass. Certain IR's tend to mush out more tha others, so don't be afraid to go down that rabbit hole either!

Sweet that sounds awesome thanks for sharing that.

 

[Dave Merrill]

Yea. There should be captures of the Eminence EJ-1240s in a 4x12 in the factory banks. Not at unit now but I can find them later.

Edit: EJ-1250, sorry. And a 2x12 too! I got it all wrong! I do know it's super bright. I remember when James Santiago contributed these captures to the II. Where'd he go? I liked the stuff he used to post here.

View attachment 87799

You can but the 1240 IRs from Eminence though: https://eminence-digital.com/produc...uitar-speaker-impulse-response-vintage-alnico

Didn't know Eminence even made IRs, interesting.
Sound samples are kinda wack though, completely different volumes.

 

[Dave Merrill]

Clip sounds pretty good. My EJ with stock pickups through what I think was these settings and the quoted Eminence cab, less so, way brighter than expected.

By dimed, do you mean gain and master decked, or those and all tone controls too? I tried both, not total joy.

Just to be clear, I can't play like EJ, and in real life I have no intention of doing that, or of sounding like him. Still, his tone has always been something of a Zen puzzle to me, clarity and punch with that uniquely smooth top end the OP was talking about, so cool.

Thoughts?

 

[sprint]

pick choice might be a factor - I've been surprised how much difference it can make to tone.

 

[fuzzy.pinetree]

Clip sounds pretty good. My EJ with stock pickups through what I think was these settings and the quoted Eminence cab, less so, way brighter than expected.

By dimed, do you mean gain and master decked, or those and all tone controls too? I tried both, not total joy.

Just to be clear, I can't play like EJ, and in real life I have no intention of doing that, or of sounding like him. Still, his tone has always been something of a Zen puzzle to me, clarity and punch with that uniquely smooth top end the OP was talking about, so cool.

Thoughts?

As Sprint said, pick choice has some to do with it. EJ uses the red nylon Jazz III's, he's actually got a signature pick. The tonal difference between like a .6 Tortex VS 1.0 Tortex aren't much. But the tonal difference between a regular tortex pick and a nylon JIII is surprisingly drastic. It does help with that brightness a bit.

As far as amp settings, I've read somewhere that none of EJ's EQ knobs are set above noon, which was shocking at first but turns out to be true. Looks like he sets Bass: 2 Middle: 3 Treble: 2 Presence: 4 and then both channel volumes cranked. I'll post the pic I'm referencing.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Clip sounds pretty good. My EJ with stock pickups through what I think was these settings and the quoted Eminence cab, less so, way brighter than expected.

By dimed, do you mean gain and master decked, or those and all tone controls too? I tried both, not total joy.

Just to be clear, I can't play like EJ, and in real life I have no intention of doing that, or of sounding like him. Still, his tone has always been something of a Zen puzzle to me, clarity and punch with that uniquely smooth top end the OP was talking about, so cool.

Thoughts?

Sorry, just the volume. Pretty sure he's jumping in the inputs as well. Damn, I wish James Santiago were still kicking around, iaresee's right, that guys is a fountain of knowledge and has spent a good amount of time with EJ. He's probably busy working on the next version of the OX.

He also runs his Echoplex in front of the amp, there's some coloration from that at play as well. Guitar-Wah-Echoplex-Tube Driver-Amp.

This is a good rundown, no perfect shots of the head to see the settings though.


These are screenshots of the preset as it was dialed in when I made that video I posted, keep in mind, I was using really high output pickups in that JEM that have a ton of midrange and I had to work around that to get it in EJ land. You'll probably have to kick up your mids a bit. I don't think I tweaked anything in the advanced parameters at all. I know I was really surprised with how quicky I got there. Hope this helps a bit!

 

[WKSmith]

I run the tube driver eq much lower for EJ stuff. Bass almost off and treble 9:00 ish. Did the same with my old 4 knob hardware version. Attached pic from his rig rundown

 

[iaresee]

He's probably busy working on the next version of the OX.

Ah. Yup. Now I remember where he went. Competition is a bummer some times.

 

[Billbill]

Midrange. Pretty sure EJ rolls his guitar's tone about 3/4 of the way off. It is my belief that most of the warm high end you're hearing is actually more of a bright MIDrange not so much as high end, this way it's not as overbearing high frequencies from the amp and drive pedals yet it still sparkles through with midrange warmth.

 

[Billbill]

I have a pretty kickars EJ preset (IMO) that I'd share but, it's for very LOUD use, amp/cab setup, and very old FW so by the time you'd get it re-tweaked right for your setup/ears you probably could've done better from scratch

 

[fuzzy.pinetree]

Midrange. Pretty sure EJ rolls his guitar's tone about 3/4 of the way off. It is my belief that most of the warm high end you're hearing is actually more of a bright MIDrange not so much as high end, this way it's not as overbearing high frequencies from the amp and drive pedals yet it still sparkles through with midrange warmth.

This makes the most sense to me, it's just a matter of getting it just right. What upper mid freq's translate like that?? And how did you go about finding it?

 

[Billbill]

This makes the most sense to me, it's just a matter of getting it just right. What upper mid freq's translate like that?? And how did you go about finding it?

Use your ears. Don't go directly for an overall tone but tweak and play to any passages that stick out most to your ears, and the rest will fall into place