EQ'ing presets for live performance

G

gberto

Inspired
I'm struggling with figuring out how to get the EQ of my presets set at home when I'm building them in a way that translates well to live venues.

I had been using a little Alto TX210, but when I setup presets using that speaker, when I get to the venue everything is really thin and bright.
So I tried using a set of Shure 215 headphones, and found that everything is too dark.
When I use my Blue MoFi headphones everything again is really thin and bright.

So I've been having to try to set things with the Shure 215's and expect that if it sounds too harsh/bright while I'm creating it, then it will sound about right on stage.

I know there's a better way to do it.

I'm thinking I need to go either:
  • Better quality speaker
  • Better quality headphones
  • Maybe something like Powercab?
  • Studio monitors

What works best for you?
 
generally it's best to create tones, or at least the final EQ, as close to the stage volume you'll use live. this is the same for any audio gear, real amps, modelers, keyboards, vocals, etc.

in the past, i've rented out a practice studio where i can turn it up, then adjusted my tones from home there. over time, i become familiar with what sounds good live and loud, and then what that sounds like at home and lower volumes.
 
One thing is volume, another thing is space. If I were to crank a CLR in my home studio to take it close to stage volumes, my room would respond with bass overload. But at a venue, there will be much more space and room for the bass to live in.

I use a combination of studio monitors and studio grade headphones to get my tones at home. I think the translation to the stage is OK enough that it can be fixed on the mixer channel strip.
 
I think the volume thing is part of what's throwing me off. Back in the days of using an amp, I would set my sounds by cranking up the amp and standing in the room with it. I could get a good feel for how that was going to translate to the stage.

Going direct with digital, I don't have that reference. Volume seems sort of arbitrary. For example, if I'm setting up tones using my Shure 215's at home plugged into the headphone jack of the AxeFX, and then using those same Shure 215's as IEMs at the venue, then the volume is essentially the same.
 
The only thing I have done is adjust it at the gig. Rooms are different everywhere. I use the output 1 and output 2 EQs in the main global area and adjust as needed based on the venue. That being said, we haven't been able to gig since last March and it doesn't look like we will be anytime soon.
 
Crank it up at home, at least when you do the final tweaks?
I always add some more mids then what feels right.
Lows go lost in the mud and I might need to turn them down.
Highs can get icey and I might need to smooth them.
The mids are always the part to rely on and what cuts trough. Even when the mids get audible and Ithink it's gotten a bit too much, it sounds ok with the band.
 
Likewise on the lack of opportunities to play PBGas. :(

I struggled with this for a while, especially because rooms sound different. Currently I always have a pair of ATH M50X handy, because while they are not totally flat, they produce bottom end and top end that I can enjoy without any room interaction. If I have EQ'd a preset at home on monitors, I will listen to it at something like gig volume on the headphones, and only then have general confidence it won't need any EQ in my FRFR, and if I am using much Axe FX in FOH (and must say that's growing on me as a concept now, even in smaller venues) it can generally be straightened out with 3 band EQ on a desk.

I bought a pair of Adam A5X for home monitoring since I last played out, and while they are amazing, the constraints of my music room at home mean that I would never trust them on their own for EQ. As Smittefar said, smaller rooms do weird things to bass response, so that if I EQ'd to sound good on the Adams, I'd be expecting to have a pretty thin sound on stage in most venues.

Guess there was an advantage to being stuck with trying to use the tone knobs on a combo to get a sound - never had to think about getting perfect tone when I probably wouldn't even get all that close to what I was hoping for in most spaces.

Liam
 
Why not let the sound engineer deal with eq’ing for a given venue and playback system. That is their job, to make you sound good. Just give them a good source material and they will know the tweaks for the acoustics, the playback system et al.

at least 50% of the time when someone tries to pre eq etc it just makes the job more difficult.

it’s like if your butcher seasoned all the steaks they sold to a chef. That chef then needs to deal with all the salt etc already applied and it totally throws off how they usually cook it, how much they season and with what spices,

Unless your always playing the same venue it’s unlikely you’ll learn the unique acoustics etc so don’t see how you’d go about eq’ing for some unknown variables

support your local engineer and maybe tip them or buy a few rounds for a job well done
 
I've found I don't have to make very many adjustments (depending on the amp). Just keep in mind the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves, which say that bass and treble frequencies are more easily heard at high volumes (and less at low volumes - hence the "loudness" button on some audio systems)... It's confusing, but I think that's right... so if your preset sounds bright at home, it will shear your audience's heads off live. I tend to err on the side of what I think is too much low mids/high bass at home. A good set of monitors will help too.

Also, some FOH systems are bright to begin with. I recently played through a Meyer Sound FOH system, fed by a Yamaha CL5 desk. It was bright, but not harsh. But it was the first time I've needed any LPF's live.
 
I would try an actual guitar FRFR monitor to dial in your live tones and not the alto p.a loudspeaker. I dial in my live tones on my FRFR's at louder than bedroom volume but quieter than stage volume. I run straight into a good sized p.a system during band practice and it always sounds just as good. If I dial in a tone on my studio monitors it will not sound as good through my frfr's or P.A system live.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Why not let the sound engineer deal with eq’ing for a given venue and playback system. That is their job, to make you sound good. Just give them a good source material and they will know the tweaks for the acoustics, the playback system et al.

at least 50% of the time when someone tries to pre eq etc it just makes the job more difficult.

it’s like if your butcher seasoned all the steaks they sold to a chef. That chef then needs to deal with all the salt etc already applied and it totally throws off how they usually cook it, how much they season and with what spices,

Unless your always playing the same venue it’s unlikely you’ll learn the unique acoustics etc so don’t see how you’d go about eq’ing for some unknown variables

support your local engineer and maybe tip them or buy a few rounds for a job well done
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This!

And I tend to ask the sound engineer after the show, if there had been any sounds, that were off, so that I know, what to adjust.

And always tip your sound guy!
 
If the channel that you are plugged in to at the mixing board is set flat, use a PEQ block at the end of your signal chain or at least after the cab. In it, set a low cut of 125 (This will get rid of the boom and prevent your guitar from competing with the bass guitar), 250 Q at around 2, -3db gain (This will clean up the the bass. 3600, Q around 2, -1.5db to -3db. This will get rid of ice pick frequencies on the treble strings, (especially when soloing). Then a high cut from anywhere around 6000 to 10000. At home these settings may sound dull and lifeless in the bass, but should translate well to a loud PA. Again, given the channel you are on, on the mixing board is set flat. I have done over a 500 shows with my Axe Fx 3 and these settings tend to always translate well for me.
 
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One suggestion I could make if you are running direct to the PA using the cab sims...set the high pass filter to around 80hz in the Cab block. You don't want to compete with the bass player and if you don't filter out the low lows you'll get needless rumble through not only the mains, but the monitors too.
 
I also agree that the volume you set at will help. I tend to set my low cut around 80-90Hz as well, depending on the sound. Although I do most of my low end control with drives before the amp block or in the amp block. Also if it is too bright, or if EQ isn't being applied at the FOH desk, then the Output EQ's are there to account for that.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Why not let the sound engineer deal with eq’ing for a given venue and playback system. That is their job, to make you sound good. Just give them a good source material and they will know the tweaks for the acoustics, the playback system et al.

at least 50% of the time when someone tries to pre eq etc it just makes the job more difficult.

it’s like if your butcher seasoned all the steaks they sold to a chef. That chef then needs to deal with all the salt etc already applied and it totally throws off how they usually cook it, how much they season and with what spices,

Unless your always playing the same venue it’s unlikely you’ll learn the unique acoustics etc so don’t see how you’d go about eq’ing for some unknown variables

support your local engineer and maybe tip them or buy a few rounds for a job well done
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Oh I totally agree, and just to be clear I'm not just talking about trying to "mix" myself within my gear, I'm talking about amp settings. And things like 'that fuzz tone that sounded great when I set this up is peaking in weird ways with the EQ in this venue'.

One problem with fully relying on the sound engineer is that if they don't know me, they don't have a reference to know how I intended some of my sounds to sit in the mix. There are some I know well and trust and have worked with a lot, and I know that they know where my sounds should sit. But I've had some who I don't know who just thought I wanted really bright thin tones for some reason, so they left it alone.
 
gberto said:
One problem with fully relying on the sound engineer is that if they don't know me, they don't have a reference to know how I intended some of my sounds to sit in the mix. There are some I know well and trust and have worked with a lot, and I know that they know where my sounds should sit. But I've had some who I don't know who just thought I wanted really bright thin tones for some reason, so they left it alone.
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The best thing to do on load-in or before sound check is let them know what you want! As a guitarist and sound guy, I have found that the best approach is to let them know you are using a modeler and direct to the board, so any preset EQs they have on the their board for generic "electric guitar" may not apply as you are already sending them a "mic'd speaker cab" signal. If they have no clue what you are talking about, let them know that starting flat and adjusting as needed is all you are looking for. I have found many places that have a set EGTR channel have a basic eq for their room that makes sense for a SM57 on a Fender HRD, but make my axe-fx painful in the mains. ;)
 
sskkmm said:
The best thing to do on load-in or before sound check is let them know what you want! As a guitarist and sound guy, I have found that the best approach is to let them know you are using a modeler and direct to the board, so any preset EQs they have on the their board for generic "electric guitar" may not apply as you are already sending them a "mic'd speaker cab" signal. If they have no clue what you are talking about, let them know that starting flat and adjusting as needed is all you are looking for. I have found many places that have a set EGTR channel have a basic eq for their room that makes sense for a SM57 on a Fender HRD, but make my axe-fx painful in the mains. ;)
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I have confused many sound guys by wanting to go direct in, I get looked at like I have two heads! But on the flip side I also get a lot that are glad I am running direct in. As a sound guy as well I totally appreciate the direct in method. Makes the mix easier to put together IMO, and also prevents the slow master volume raising that I have seen so many times with guitarists using mic'd amps.
 
Set up the performance screen in Axe Fx III to have 10 of your go to adjustment settings. Adjust on the fly and then save. This great for live and rehearsal. My 10 are: Gain, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, Level, Negative Feedback, Delay Level, Reverb Level and Compression Level.
 
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