ENGINEER or GUITAR PLAYER?

actionjackson12

actionjackson12

Inspired
Anyone else feel like they spend more time "programming" than playing?

I would love to see how others approach using the axe-fx MKII/MFC-101 to really simplify, control, and access everything quickly and effortlessly...like a traditional rig (I miss having 5 knobs to control my amp etc.)

MY CURRENT APPROACH:
-Scenes to switch between two amp blocks and X/Y states of certain effects.
-I use the Looper A LOT, and the Enhancer block to alter panning spread when mixing layers.
-Looper setup as IA switches instead of looper mode (I can just stay inside of REVEAL mode for each song).
-3 Expression pedals to control things like, Looper mix/volume (looper is in parallel at end of chain to achieve this control), Wah, Reverb mix.
-IA switches for things like boost & Reverb Hold.
-MFC-101 in preset mode.

Your turn!
 
I'm more on the "engineer" so I generally program more than play (not just for guitar). The key for me is AxeEdit, a visible AxeFX front panel though I rarely touch it, and the MFC at my feet for the looper, scenes, and preset changes. This applies in the studio, on any set, or hotel. Having AxeEdit on a Windows tablet mounted on a stand when standing helps a lot. When purely switching, AxeEdit is paused and I rely on the MFC and the AxeFX front display for status but all edits are done with AxeEdit. To me, it's the ultimate amp control and better than amp/equipment knobs. I have mixed feelings about the MFC but it gets the job done.

PS Bass Mid Treble type control really doesn't do it for me. I need access to the other amp parameters and all of the effects. I think that's my engineer side coming out. Even if I had physical controls for the basic amp controls, they'd be relatively useless to me as I don't use them much for sound sculpting or even adjusting to a specific room.
 
I am both engineer and musician.

I find the engineering in general to break my creative flow as a musician.

When I need to record and play, I try to use templates in my DAW and not get distracted with programming plugins, Fractal presets etc. I try to stay in the musician creative flow.

I dedicate engineering time to mix, program presets, audition presets, IR's etc.
 
because the rotary are "continuous" you need the screen to see the value you are dialing...
and ALSO because the 12 rotary/push knobs are FULLY assignable... you need the screen to see WHAT you are dialing/pushing
I'm not involved in any way in this product... I only HAVE ONE and I can tell you: IT'S A MUST!!!... JUST AMAZING!!!
You'll get a software editor... easy clear and simple to set up what you want to put under the 12 knob/push
The guys behind the 12RAC are french... very friendly
THINK: you have over 384 parametres under your fingers, because 12 knobs + 12 push x 16 pages so think this scenario:
FIRST PAGE: amp selection and all the classic controls of an amp (master, drive, bass mid treble) and more (fat, bright, cut switches)
SECOND PAGE: drive selection and all the classic drive control
THIRD PAGE: cab selection (!!!!) and all the most important controls about cabs (mic selection, eq, motord drive, frequency cuts etc)
and so on... for 16!!!

AND it work also WITH an MFC!!!

Believe me Man... another WORLD with the Axe!!!
It's like to have a PHYSICAL AxeEdit...at your fingertips... without pc!
 
GuttaLaser said:
because the rotary are "continuous" you need the screen to see the value you are dialing...
and ALSO because the 12 rotary/push knobs are FULLY assignable... you need the screen to see WHAT you are dialing/pushing
I'm not involved in any way in this product... I only HAVE ONE and I can tell you: IT'S A MUST!!!... JUST AMAZING!!!
You'll get a software editor... easy clear and simple to set up what you want to put under the 12 knob/push
The guys behind the 12RAC are french... very friendly
THINK: you have over 384 parametres under your fingers, because 12 knobs + 12 push x 16 pages so think this scenario:
FIRST PAGE: amp selection and all the classic controls of an amp (master, drive, bass mid treble) and more (fat, bright, cut switches)
SECOND PAGE: drive selection and all the classic drive control
THIRD PAGE: cab selection (!!!!) and all the most important controls about cabs (mic selection, eq, motord drive, frequency cuts etc)
and so on... for 16!!!

AND it work also WITH an MFC!!!

Believe me Man... another WORLD with the Axe!!!
Click to expand...


This is definitely intriguing, it STILL seems to be pretty program intensive, is it more like a "one-time-program and done" type of thing? meaning can I go through and program ALL the parameters I want and then LEAVE IT ALONE? haha. I will do some more research on it bc this seems to be a very nice add on to my axe-fxII rig.
 
Guitar player.

I spend (and have spent) a good amount of time getting my playing together. I don't dive into the advanced menus and my signal chains are always very standard practice. I usually use BMT and a good cab IR to get my tone.

I know what all the advanced parameters do, but I find that it's almost irrelevant once you get the right IR.

The rest is in my hands, including a couple twists of the tone and volume knob and the flipping to the right pickup to get a specific sound. If you can't play like Van Halen, you're not going to be able to cop his tone.

If I need to copy a tone exactly, I'll just tone match and be done with it. As long as I can find or get the stem and/or record the real thing.
 
dpeterson said:
Do this... create a patch with a virtual pedalboard with the stuff you use or plan to use. Use this as a template when you try to create new sounds. This helps me a lot, when i want a new sound, i copy the patch over, swap the amp and cab and boom.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I do. I don't program, I play. If I need something that isn't programmed, I program it in and play. Tweaking is for learning; once learned, leave it alone and play.

I have the MFC setup with banks of 5 presets with a standard set of effects on most every single preset. There are special presets set to do specific things (song dependant) but in general, that's how I see the thing.

I use 4 expression pedals; 2 with switches. I generally do not use multiple functions all at the same time on each and plan their assignments that way. One controls wah (switch is on/off for the wah block), leslie speed and preamp gain (via a PEQ block). #2 controls wet/dry mix for all effects except delay & reverb *and* post amp gain (solo boost via a PEQ block). #3 controls delay wet/dry and Pitch output level. #4 is Reverb wet/dry.
 
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Scott Peterson said:
Exactly what I do. I don't program, I play. If I need something that isn't programmed, I program it in and play. Tweaking is for learning; once learned, leave it alone and play.

I have the MFC setup with banks of 5 presets with a standard set of effects on most every single preset. There are special presets set to do specific things (song dependant) but in general, that's how I see the thing.

I use 4 expression pedals; 2 with switches. I generally do not use multiple functions all at the same time on each and plan their assignments that way. One controls wah (switch is on/off for the wah block), leslie speed and preamp gain (via a PEQ block). #2 controls wet/dry mix for all effects except delay & reverb *and* post amp gain (solo boost via a PEQ block). #3 controls delay wet/dry and Pitch output level. #4 is Reverb wet/dry.
Click to expand...

Much Appreciated! I'll definitely use the pre-made template technique. I think my biggest challenge lies within the looper and overall mix of the dubs/layers when playing live or practicing...My loops are either getting lost in the mix, or go out of time no matter how precise my changes are ( i even quantize...AND loop to the built in metronome...it goes out of time EVERY TIME). Any suggestions or techniques for using the looper more effectively?
 
Back in 2008 I think I spent so much time programming that I realized that I haven't played for weeks... Then I started to tweak only when I need it: sometimes I spend some time going deep into a new parameter or something I haven't explored yet but no more than an hour or two. I build up a "virtual board" (something like Scott did) with 4 expression pedals and 6 external switches and I'm happy with it.
 
when people get a device with so many options, they usually feel that they MUST use all the options. MFC has 4 pedal ports? I MUST GET 4 PEDALS! over 200 amps? I MUST USE THEM ALL! advanced parameters in the amp block? I HAVE TO TURN EVERYTHING!!

:)

with any new gear, you need to learn it a bit of course, but once you find a handful of amps that you like - or even just 1 or 2 - you can get away with just the Bass Mid Treb and Gain/Master parameters. want some chorus? add it. then play.

leave the knobs alone. they are there for those who want to turn them. if you don't want to turn them, don't :)
 
I definitely bias toward playing rather than programming. I use the AxeFX in two bands, and each has a different approach:

BAND 1 : Pop / Rock covers
  • MFC-101 is set up with two banks of 5 (total of 10) patches, each with up to 4 scenes. I do most of our 3 hour show using just three patches, which are all on the same bank. The other bank has some specialty patches for specific songs, although I use most of those more than once.
  • There is only one patch that is used for a single song.
BAND 2 : David Bowie Tribute
  • MFC-101 is set up with six banks of 5 (total of 30) patches, each with up to 5 scenes.
  • For this band, nearly every song has a dedicated patch. I reuse a few of them during our show, but that's the exception.
  • In the context of this band, I have to do a lot of programming to prep individual sounds. Also, the sounds are pretty deep and complex... I'm covering guitar parts that were recorded by Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Mick Ronson, Earl Slick, Peter Frampton, Reeves Gabrels, and so on... each of those musicians has a distinctive tone, and it takes a lot of layering to recreate those sounds in a live setting.
In the studio, I spend time getting my sound. I have a few starting points that are "templates", based on tones that I like. But I always wind up making adjustments to fit the mix before I start to track.
 
actionjackson12 said:
Much Appreciated! I'll definitely use the pre-made template technique. I think my biggest challenge lies within the looper and overall mix of the dubs/layers when playing live or practicing...My loops are either getting lost in the mix, or go out of time no matter how precise my changes are ( i even quantize...AND loop to the built in metronome...it goes out of time EVERY TIME). Any suggestions or techniques for using the looper more effectively?
Click to expand...

make backing tracks for what you need to loop, then you only have to get it perfect once
 
actionjackson12 said:
My loops [...] go out of time no matter how precise my changes are ( i even quantize...AND loop to the built in metronome...it goes out of time EVERY TIME). Any suggestions or techniques for using the looper more effectively?
Click to expand...

Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken: I don't believe that the timebase for the metronome and looper are synchronized.
 
Engineer vs. musician: Two different skill sets, for certain. I make a conscious effort to separate the two.

As with all rigs prior to having the Axe-FX, I started with a plan. The engineering work is pretty much done once the programming/building is finished. From that point forward, I really don't tweak anything until my needs change or I decide to try a different approach.

I definitely understand the tendency to get all wound up in programming the AFX. I spent my first week tweaking one AFX patch well past the point of usability; it was a disaster in my first session. I started over ignoring all but the essential adjustments and came up with a patch that I've been happily playing for nine months.

My setup is a XL+ with a LF+ Pro+ controller. There's some clever programming in the LF+ to make it work the way I like; sound and control are two sides of the same coin.
 
after the necessary climbing on the learning curve of the limitless options the Axe can offer... I don't feel the line between playing and programming...
I mean... for me it's like selecting IRL what effect pedals put on my pedalboard and turning the amp and fxs knobs... so for me is something that is IN the playing.
I feel I'm really programming... when i'm in a recording session 'couse the Axe have tons of "tools" that are typical of the "post-production" and mixing time, so you can get in right the recording session the 99,99% of the final tone.
 
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