Embarrassing Question :( => whats the MIDI PC # -or- MIDI CC # for Preset UP / Preset DOWN ?

ben ifin

ben ifin

Experienced
Hi all

This is a very embarrassing basic question, but I'm having trouble finding the answer:-

=> what is the MIDI PC# -or- MIDI CC# to simply Increment UP by ONE or Increment DOWN by ONE from Preset-to-Preset ?

Ive got the other Scene select and stomps done, but I just cant find this anywhere :(

Thanks,
Ben
 
There isn't one, you can use a switch connected to the external switch sockets but you cannot do it with midi.

edit: I believe you can do it on the MFC if you set the bank size to 1 (or it might be 0 can't remember).
 
smfelton said:
There isn't one, you can use a switch connected to the external switch sockets but you cannot do it with midi.

edit: I believe you can do it on the MFC if you set the bank size to 1 (or it might be 0 can't remember).
Click to expand...

huh ???? really ??? I mean this is like the most basic of midi commands ....
 
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it's not a MIDI command... up / down bank happens within the floor controller [or MIDI device] itself..
if you bank up for example and the bank size = 10, the floor controller simply spits out a MIDI program change command for the preset number that is 10 above the preset number you was on when you hit the bank up switch..
 
ben ifin said:
Hi all

This is a very embarrassing basic question, but I'm having trouble finding the answer:-

=> what is the MIDI PC# -or- MIDI CC# to simply Increment UP by ONE or Increment DOWN by ONE from Preset-to-Preset ?

Ive got the other Scene select and stomps done, but I just cant find this anywhere :(

Thanks,
Ben
Click to expand...

after a further think on this..
why are you asking about this specifically?
do you have some sort of problem / limitation with something that you need to overcome?
or is there some sort of 'behaviour' you are trying to make happen with your controller?

cos maybe a possible solution is a little different to what would first occur to you
this can often be the case when delving into the control side of things..
and also, as I found myself, sometimes you can overcome controller unit limitations with a little creative thinking..
 
clarky said:
after a further think on this..
why are you asking about this specifically?
do you have some sort of problem / limitation with something that you need to overcome?
or is there some sort of 'behaviour' you are trying to make happen with your controller?

cos maybe a possible solution is a little different to what would first occur to you
this can often be the case when delving into the control side of things..
and also, as I found myself, sometimes you can overcome controller unit limitations with a little creative thinking..
Click to expand...

Hey - thanks.

Its not my Midi FSW - I have a BJ Devices TB-12 - all 12 buttons are fully assignable and it is fully 2-way bi-directional with the Axe and my Kemper

My simple 12 button setup is as follows:-

Button 1 = Stomp ON/OFF - works fine with both Axe and KPA
Button 2 = Stomp ON/OFF - works fine with both Axe and KPA
Button 3 = TAP TEMPO - works fine with both Axe and KPA
Button 4 = MIDI FSW BANK UP - works fine
Button 5 = MIDI FSW BANK DOWN - works fine
Buttons 6 <-> 12 SCENE SELECT - works fine Axe [ and with Kemper Performance Mode ]
LIVE TUNER DISPLAY - works fine with both Axe and KPA
EXP PEDAL 1 = WAH - works fine with both Axe and KPA
EXP PEDAL 2 = SPARE / UN-USED

My base Axe 2 Presets are as follows:-

-> Preset 10 is my PLEXI with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 11 is my AC30 with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 12 is my MESA with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 13 is my DC30 with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 14 is my TWIN with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 15 is my AC20 with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 16 is my DLX with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 17 is my SATCH with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 18 is my HBE with 6 Scenes
-> Preset 19 is my JMP with 6 Scenes

Everything is working fine except that I cant get from preset-to-preset with any button I try ??!!

There is a " Scene Increment " CC available but no PC Up or PC Down that I can see ?

Any suggestions / work around [that dont involve getting an MFC101 or an extra 2 Button FSW] would be hugely and genuinely appreciated.

Ben
 
So what does bank up and down do? I mean I know what it does but what does it do for you? IOW, what's in bank 1, bank 2, bank 3?
I have no idea how the BJ tb 12 works but....Can't you just put Preset 10 in bank 1, preset 11 in bank 2, so on and so on. Now you will be moving thru your 10 presets as you press bank up and bank down-no?.

BTW Edit: this may be way off base, but I am assuming a bank can contain any presets you wish.
 
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Sorry, the guys above are right. Just for your reference, this is exactly what leaves my controller directly in to my Mac. The controller increments internally before sending the message out. Crossing my fingers for someone to chime in with a backdoor method, but I've never found one.

This feature you're looking for has been wishlisted a few times.

Just clicking preset up on my X-15:

17:43:17.258 From USB2MIDI Program 1 0
17:43:18.183 From USB2MIDI Program 1 1
17:43:19.108 From USB2MIDI Program 1 2
17:43:19.831 From USB2MIDI Program 1 3
17:43:20.576 From USB2MIDI Program 1 4
17:43:28.768 From USB2MIDI Program 1 5
17:43:29.175 From USB2MIDI Program 1 6
17:43:29.491 From USB2MIDI Program 1 7
17:43:29.739 From USB2MIDI Program 1 8
17:43:29.987 From USB2MIDI Program 1 9
17:43:30.236 From USB2MIDI Program 1 10

You can see there that the pedal does the incrementing. :(
 
add a "http:\\forum." before the next text to get a link to previous discussions. Not sure if I'll get booted for linking before ten posts but lets try this: (also change the "\\" after the http to "//")

fractalaudio.com/threads/midi-cc-preset-increase-preset-decrease-please.77605/


Edit: post success, sorry mods for circumnavigating the rules with sketchy posting ethics...
 
You can alternatively change the MFC mode from preset to song/set mode, thus enabling sort of up/down one preset at a time. With some planning, this might be an effective solution. In song mode, the up/down switch moves the presets from song to song.
 
sialtam said:
You can alternatively change the MFC mode from preset to song/set mode, thus enabling sort of up/down one preset at a time. With some planning, this might be an effective solution. In song mode, the up/down switch moves the presets from song to song.
Click to expand...

Hi. This sounds promising ...... I dont use an MFC ....... so where is the MFC Mode ? / can I access it when using my TB12 Midi controller ?

Thanks,
Ben
 
I get around this on the MFC by exploiting a couple of things that I know regarding my live needs
- I absolutely never need more than 10 presets live
- I can handle most if not all of a gig [depending on the set list] with 5 presets or less
- I never change preset mid-song, only between songs. this means having the preset selection switches on row 3 makes most sense and so the scene changes [which I do mid-song] are all on the front row switches for maximum accessibility...

so my solution is this:
- reserve presets 0 thru 9 and consider them to be my 'performance area'
this means that I load the presets I need for a gig into these first 10 slots [cos I store them elsewhere in the Axe]
- the presets I need most of all I place in slots 0 thru 4
- the presets I'd only use once in the gig will be placed in slots 5 thru 9 [only if 0 thru 4 are all full]

MFC layout:
row 3 = preset select row
sw11 = preset 0, sw12 = preset 1 etc etc sw15 = preset 15 = preset 4

row 2 = IA for individual fx
row 1 = scenes

bank size = 5

if I need preset 6 for example I hit switch 12 to call up preset 2 [in row 3] and then up bank
given that this action occurs between songs, and is a rare / once in the gig task, I have plenty of time to perform this 'two touch' preset selection…

of course this means that I always run the MFC in IA 'Reveal' mode because all of the switches are preconfigured..
and…. if I play a gig with a different band.. I load the presets for that band into my performance area and I'm ready to go.. it's not serious effort to sort out and the behaviour for live performance makes it all worthwhile..

it works an absolute treat...
 
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ben ifin said:
Hi. This sounds promising ...... I dont use an MFC ....... so where is the MFC Mode ? / can I access it when using my TB12 Midi controller ?

Thanks,
Ben
Click to expand...
These modes are MFC specific. I recommend you read the MFC manual (downloadable from the fractal site) to see how it works and maybe find some workaround solution.
 
Unfortunately there are no MIDI commands to increment or decrement programs, only to change to a specified program. The MIDI controller is responsible for the logic required to determine which preset number is next or previous. As stated, the MFC allows you to set bank size to zero, and then the bank up and down buttons will scroll between presets. I don't believe the TB-12 has this capability. It's bank size appears to be fixed to all 12 buttons.

One possible work around is to assign one button on the TB-12 to be a program change (PC) button and assign it to one of your 10 presets in each of 10 banks on the TB-12. So in bank 1, the PC switch would send PC#10. In bank 2, the PC switch would send PC#11, and so on for 10 banks. All the other buttons could be assigned to their same current functions in all the banks. To change presets, you would use bank up and down to scroll to the bank that has the desired PC number setup and then hit the PC button.

Another option might be to create a bank where the 10 remaining switches besides the bank up and down switches are set to PC buttons for each of your 10 presets. You would then switch banks to the preset buttons, change to the desired preset and then switch banks back to the layout where your scene and stomp switches are setup. That's the way I used to use my FCB1010 footcontroller with the Axe. I also has a third bank setup with looper controls as well. However, I remember reading before that the switch function (either program change, cc toggle, or bank change) has to stay the same in all banks in the TB-12, so you might not be able to make it switch from a PC button to something else in other banks. That limitation may have been fixed since then though, so you'll have to try it and see.

The TB-12 does have shift mode though, so you could setup all your current scene select buttons to select presets in normal mode and then in shift mode set them up to be scene select buttons.
 
Don't wish to threadjack.... (but I do think the OP has been answered, even if the answer is disappointing. of course there may be another way)

BUT.... I dig reading how different people set things up. Clarky is SO different than my setup... and that is really cool. So many ways to do things...

I run 1 preset per song. Many presets may be copies of another... but with 700+ preset slots, I can pretty much build a preset for every song I will ever play. I might have 2 songs with the same exact preset... but I give them both the individual song name. It gives me a sort of dynamic electronic set list.

I don't use song or set mode. I use bank size 0. I sequentially move through presets with bank up/down. I can go into A.E and order my set list. BUT... now... I use Ableton Live and a midi track auto selects my preset for me... random access style.
Ok. Thread jack over. sorry OP. I just think the possibilities are so damn cool.
 
Still wondering why I didn't even draw a WTF from someone-My suggestion is perfectly logical-I mean I didn't even get a , thanks Frank, but that;s not what I need.Why. oh,because it actually might work. because it works....Always so nice to try an help a fellow fractal-just the thanks alone for trying are reward enough. Yes ,just so rewarding in a soundless vacuum type of way.............
 
Hi Frank and Everyone else !

Firstly, my genuine apologies for not being more responsive, but Ive been out for most of the day and evening up until now.

Frank - your suggestion was how I ended up going :) - but the others were great too .... particularly the "shift" mode option.

What I have is now [almost] ideal ... as Frank suggested.

=> I set up 4 Banks and each Bank has

- 4 x Dedicated PC Buttons to Direct Access 4 Specific Presets
- 4 x Dedicated CC Buttons to Direct Scene Access 4 Scenes for each selected Preset
- 1 x Dedicated Bank UP Button
- 1 x Dedicated Bank DOWN Button
- 2 x Dedicated CC IA / STOMP ON/OFF
- Dedicated TUNER Button not needed as all TB12 Buttons select and display the Tuner when they are "long pressed" .... and the "long press" is user-settable

It gives me about %95 of what I was hoping .... so its all good .... really good :)

So ..... my huge, sincere thanks to all.

I would not have got there without your great ideas, suggestions and help :)

Ben
 
ben ifin said:
Hi Frank and Everyone else !

So ..... my huge, sincere thanks to all.

I would not have got there without your great ideas, suggestions and help :)

Ben
Click to expand...

Great! I should apologize for my 2nd post but I was really curious if I was way off base and didn't understand the issue..

So glad you have something workable
Good Luck with it all
Frank
 
glad to see that you seem to have come up with a solid solution…
often with this stuff.. what seems obvious is not quite the way..
every once in a while you need to really nail your requirements and then bend the kit via config to get it to meet them..
and this can mean [as in my case] doing something a little unusual
 
I was kind of surprised there were no commands for preset up/down when programming my new Boss ES-8. I wanted to have one bank where two buttons were used for preset up/down and the other buttons used for effect bypass or scene selection. Not really a problem but it would be a nice feature to have.
 
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