Effects More Prnounced with Real Cabs

sprint

sprint

Axe-Master
As you see below I have a pair of Marshall cabs and a pair of passive atomics powered by a Rocktron v300 and SLA1. I find that regardless of which amp I use for power, the Marshall Cabs seem to render effects, particularly delay / reverb in a much more pronounced way than with the Atomics. Through the Marshalls, delay sounds much deeper and louder at a given mix level than with the Atomics even if I compare using the same amp.

Can anyone explain this? I'm comparing the two with the same patch with the Cab at the very end - the Atomics are running from output 1 and the marshalls from output 2 with the effects send split off just before the cab. Everything else is the same.

With the FRFR path to the Atomics (and the KRK monitors as well) time based post amp effects seems to be much more lost in the mix than with the traditional guitar cabs. I've tried switching cabs around in the FRFR path but it does not seem to change this effect. I guess the larger 2x12 marshal cabs would explain some of this but I curious as to why the FRFR path would present these effects that differently (in the patch I'm using the old 4x12 v30s. (soon I'll be able to conduct an interesting experiment and tone match my marshall cab ! (well a mic'd one at least)).
 
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I had to rework patches for the same reason. I suspect it is because when running through a cab block into FRFR some HF and other frequencies are attenuated, unlike "real" cabs/drivers. Response of real drivers can change dynamically, due to power compression and other factors. IR's are basically a static snapshot of driver response.
 
It might be block levels / output 1 vs. output 2 levels / grid output mixer levels in the patch.

Just as a test, swap out 1 with out 2. The tone in the atomics probably won't be what you want without a cab block, but you can apples to the apples the efx level that way.

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
It might be block levels / output 1 vs. output 2 levels / grid output mixer levels in the patch.

Just as a test, swap out 1 with out 2. The tone in the atomics probably won't be what you want without a cab block, but you can apples to the apples the efx level that way.

Richard
Click to expand...

Thanks - I matched the levels but did not think of comparing both with cab off on the FRFR path. I'll do that tonight to get a better comparison.
 
I'm not sure if this is the issue or not, but IR's only capture the linear behavior of the loudspeaker. At low frequencies, a woofer's 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonic distortion increases but that is not captured in the IR. Whether or not the harmonic distortion is a significant portion of the sound, I'm not sure. The other thing is, it's possible the Marshall cabinet itself is resonating. If it's not the Axe's setting, then those would be my two guesses.
 
Did you use the delay after or before the cab block in your chain with FRFR?

Now with your Real Cab, it's before the cab...
 
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barhrecords said:
It might be block levels / output 1 vs. output 2 levels / grid output mixer levels in the patch.

Just as a test, swap out 1 with out 2. The tone in the atomics probably won't be what you want without a cab block, but you can apples to the apples the efx level that way.

Richard
Click to expand...

So as suggested by Richard I compared my FRFR Cab and Guitar Cab paths with the cab sim turned off in the FRFR path. The two now sound very close in terms of the effects mix. Thanks Richard for suggesting this test. I guess it's not a revelation for most but I had underestimated the full impact of Cab Sims to FRFR Cabs vs no Cab Sim to Guitar Cab. (Note to levipeto - I have my Cab Sim at the very end of the path and my output 2 path split off just before the cab sim so my guitar cab does not get the cab sim effect (I know I know - I may get clearer time based effects if those effects are after the cab but I do it this way to have single patches that work for both FRFR and Regular guitar cab (some trade off there)).

Now intrigued with this test I tried to build a patch that would do the following:
- Add a little "no cab sim acton" to my FRFR (actually the Atomics sound kind of cool with no cab sim enabled!).
- Add a little "cab sim action" to my non-FRFR guitar cabs - just enough to flavour them more toward the cab sim tone.

The attached patch is what I came up with:
- Mixer 1 controls the level of "no cab sim action" on the FRFR path (10% here - seems to add some depth in my rig and brings out the time based effects more).
- Mixer 2 controls the level of "cab action" on the non-FRFR guitar cab path (10% again - just enough to add some Recto flavour

Pretty cool the Axe can do this.

I also noted that the Room parameter on the cabs really helps to bring out the time based effects and depth as well - I have them maxed here with 50% Air.

If you use this patch also note:
- External 1 (Expression) controls Wah and Whammy
- External 2 (Expression) controls Volume.
- External 9 (Switch) selects Wah or Whammy (Wah is default).
- Amp/Cabs X is clean, Amp/Cabs Y is dirty (Y is default) - No controller on those right now.
 

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