editing presets on axe edit without axe fx connected

Mr.X said:
Really, the whole point of having editor software is for the very purpose of using it offline. If you have an Axe-FX in front of you, you can simply use the front panel as everyone did for the time when there was no Axe-Edit software.
I can't think of another piece of audio gear that limits the editor usage to online only.
No manufacturer of a digital mixing console, for example, would ever create an online-only version of their editor. It would be pointless and they would definitely lose sales because of it.
Click to expand...
No, the whole point of editing software is ease of use. Offline editing is merely a feature.

Those who've been around here for some time are well aware of the limitations and challenges faced by earlier versions of AE, which USED TO support off-line editing for Standard, Ultra and [initially] AF2 models. It was a PITA and caused all sorts of issues with coding, regression testing and matching releases of AE as each new firmware from Cliff [usually] required coding changes to support new features (eg: Tone Matching, Scenes), and mapping between preset versions created with each firmware to support version compatibility for offline editing.

And.. that is why AE v3.* was re-written from scratch to poll settings from the hardware and why offline editing was removed. AE can keep up and no longer requires a release for each firmware.

These same folks are also aware that the FREE prolific firmware upgrades from Cliff do NOT occur with most other "audio gear". Those platforms tend to be more "stable" and if you look, you will find that offline editing usually occurs ONLY for compatible firmware/editor versions.

For example.. (you mentioned consoles).. my B*ringer X32 and Presonus 16.4.2 editors support offline edits.. but both require firmware versions match the editor and are not backward compatible. So settings saved with X32 v2 firmware editor cannot be loaded into an X32 v1.6 firmware loaded console.

Think I'll stick with getting new firmware versus offline editing in AE.
 
s0c9 said:
No, the whole point of editing software is ease of use. Offline editing is merely a feature.
Click to expand...

true enough, tis a feature and not the purpose.


s0c9 said:
And.. that is why AE v3.* was re-written from scratch to poll settings from the hardware and why offline editing was removed. [/I]AE can keep up and no longer requires a release for each firmware.
Click to expand...

No offence but not so true. It's just 1's & 0's. It may be harder to properly align the 1's & 0's for off-line editing but certainly very doable and still being able to keep the same "upward mobility" that we've all come to enjoy. It may mean reading the latest sysx and creating a "virtual Axe-Fx" in memory/cache that can "polled" when a real one is not available. Lots of possibilities. While the physical box is magical, it's not THAT magical. :)

All that said...offline editing (while also a selling point for me way back when), while I could make use of it, it's not the most important feature I'd like to see the edit team work on.
 
DTownSMR said:
No offence but not so true. It's just 1's & 0's. It may be harder to properly align the 1's & 0's for off-line editing but certainly very doable and still being able to keep the same "upward mobility" that we've all come to enjoy. It may mean reading the latest sysx and creating a "virtual Axe-Fx" in memory/cache that can "polled" when a real one is not available. Lots of possibilities. While the physical box is magical, it's not THAT magical.
Click to expand...
None taken, but I can assure you - I was far closer to the situation than most, and have full appreciation and understanding of why FAS made the decisions they did regarding offline editing.

I posted on those challenges over the last few yrs.. Search my posting history.. you'll find more complete and complex descriptors of the topic.
 
s0c9 said:
Those who've been around here for some time are well aware of the limitations and challenges faced by earlier versions of AE, which USED TO support off-line editing for Standard, Ultra and [initially] AF2 models. It was a PITA and caused all sorts of issues with coding, regression testing and matching releases of AE as each new firmware from Cliff [usually] required coding changes to support new features (eg: Tone Matching, Scenes), and mapping between preset versions created with each firmware to support version compatibility for offline editing.

And.. that is why AE v3.* was re-written from scratch to poll settings from the hardware and why offline editing was removed. AE can keep up and no longer requires a release for each firmware.

These same folks are also aware that the FREE prolific firmware upgrades from Cliff do NOT occur with most other "audio gear". Those platforms tend to be more "stable" and if you look, you will find that offline editing usually occurs ONLY for compatible firmware/editor versions.

For example.. (you mentioned consoles).. my B*ringer X32 and Presonus 16.4.2 editors support offline edits.. but both require firmware versions match the editor and are not backward compatible. So settings saved with X32 v2 firmware editor cannot be loaded into an X32 v1.6 firmware loaded console.

Think I'll stick with getting new firmware versus offline editing in AE.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply.
Just so you know, I have been around long enough (since FW version 4) and have also rebuffed all arguments against offline editing. You can have a look at my many posts on the subject.
Also, your point about the editor being useable with different firmware is simply wrong. The other day I downloaded the latest editor, 3.1.0 at the time, and tried to connect to my guitarist's Axe-FX which had 13.07 on it. What do you know? It wouldn't allow me to connect until I updated the firmware.

So the whole argument of not needing to have the firmware match the editor version is simply false. It might have been the intention, but it's not the way it actually works.
 
Mr.X said:
s0c9 said:
And.. that is why AE v3.* was re-written from scratch to poll settings from the hardware and why offline editing was removed. AE can keep up and no longer requires a release for each firmware.
Click to expand...

Also, your point about the editor being useable with different firmware is simply wrong. The other day I downloaded the latest editor, 3.1.0 at the time, and tried to connect to my guitarist's Axe-FX which had 13.07 on it. What do you know? It wouldn't allow me to connect until I updated the firmware.

So the whole argument of not needing to have the firmware match the editor version is simply false. It might have been the intention, but it's not the way it actually works.
Click to expand...


I think you're both right. I haven't been around that long (firmware 9 I believe) but I believe both points are valid on certain releases. Some releases you need to upgrade the editor and others can "get by" but just not always getting all the new things...but still useable for most editing tasks.
 
DTownSMR said:
I think you're both right. I haven't been around that long (firmware 9 I believe) but I believe both points are valid on certain releases. Some releases you need to upgrade the editor and others can "get by" but just not always getting all the new things...but still useable for most editing tasks.
Click to expand...
As I say, the original concept has failed, so the "advantage" to the new paradigm is moot.
We all know that the software isn't going to be re-written, but there's no reason that a software emulator couldn't. I would be willing to pay for such a piece of software.
 
Last edited:
Mr.X said:
Also, your point about the editor being useable with different firmware is simply wrong. The other day I downloaded the latest editor, 3.1.0 at the time, and tried to connect to my guitarist's Axe-FX which had 13.07 on it. What do you know? It wouldn't allow me to connect until I updated the firmware.
Click to expand...
I haven't tried that, but will (when I get time). The editor should update stored blocks/parameters to match the firmware.. tho' to be honest, idk if 3.1.0 supports 13.07 - that's fairly old.
 
s0c9 said:
idk if 3.1.0 supports 13.07 - that's fairly old.
Click to expand...
It doesn't. I'll bet each release of the editor only supports the firmware available at that time. i.e. when a new firmware comes out, so does a new editor. Check it and see if you like, I've only tested 3.1.0 with 13.07.
 
Mr.X said:
Hmmm... It suddenly got very quiet in here... [emoji88]
Click to expand...
Been busy, gigs, etc. and haven't had time to reload older firmware/AE versions to confirm your observations... and may not have time in the near future to do so (work, gigs, etc.). Meanwhile, it is what it is..
 
I understand. It's an important point though that any single version of the editor DOES NOT work with any version of the Axe-FX firmware, and people should stop touting that as a benefit of the new paradigm.
IMHO, the new Axe-Edit only offers advantages to FAS, not to the user, which is fair enough, it's free software after all, but it still leaves a huge hole in usability that I'm hoping someone will fill. All I want to say is I and others would be willing to pay for that capability if it were something that someone wanted to take on.
 
Mr.X said:
I understand. It's an important point though that any single version of the editor DOES NOT work with any version of the Axe-FX firmware, and people should stop touting that as a benefit of the new paradigm.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct. The truth is, the editor has NEVER worked with ALL/ANY version of the firmware, not even back in the days when the Std/Ultra were the only available FAS models. The developer(s) tried to support it (along with offline editing), but as I mentioned already.. there's a whole plethora of challenges caused by frequent firmware upgrades.

FAS made the decision with v3 to no longer support offline editing. While I'm aware of many of the technical challenges (I worked closely with the development team on the older versions and was VERY closely involved with AE v2 design/feature set - that never happened - prior to the v3 re-write) it's a decision they made around investment, matched functionality and release timings.

While offline editing MAY return at some point, I have no perspective on IF or when that may happen. My guess is not soon.
 
s0c9 said:
but as I mentioned already.. there's a whole plethora of challenges caused by frequent firmware upgrades.
Click to expand...
The 'challenges' with proper coordination between AFX and Editor should be very simple.
When a firmware is released that the current editor doesn't support, a new Axe-Edit is released, just as happens currently.
If an old preset is opened in an offline version if Axe-Edit, it gets coverted to the be a preset matching the version of Axe-Edit, just like it does now when loaded into the Axe-FX.
If loading a preset newer than the version of Axe-Edit or the Axe-FX is attempted, AE or AFX simply rejects it.
All pretty simple. So what's the big challenge? Nobody has actually ever said.
 
I cannot stress how exceptionally rude it is to show up at someone's place of work and tell them, "their job is just so simple and why aren't you doing the simple things I asked of you?"

Don't do this, please:

Mr.X said:
The 'challenges' with proper coordination between AFX and Editor should be very simple.
When a firmware is released that the current editor doesn't support, a new Axe-Edit is released, just as happens currently.
If an old preset is opened in an offline version if Axe-Edit, it gets coverted to the be a preset matching the version of Axe-Edit, just like it does now when loaded into the Axe-FX.
If loading a preset newer than the version of Axe-Edit or the Axe-FX is attempted, AE or AFX simply rejects it.
All pretty simple. So what's the big challenge? Nobody has actually ever said.
Click to expand...
 
I dunno, some companies like feedback and suggestions from their customers.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom