Echoplex preamp

Joker said:
I have the Belle Epoch Deluxe Delay pedal as well as the Secret Preamp, and, so far, I'm unable to recreate that tone inside the Axe FX III. I can get close, no doubt, but the real pedal adds a thickness to the tone that is tough to achieve with just an EQ and a bit of dirt.
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Have you compared these to James Santiago's IR of the EP-3 Preamp section ? I'd be curious how close you think that is ?
 
I did a little comparison between the normal tone, Santiago IR engaged and the Secret Preamp engaged:



Only very light limiting was applied to bring the level up without even the slightest bit of gain reduction. It might still be a little quiet for some, but I wanted to preserve as much of the original tone as I could.

The first one is just the amp and cab, the second one features the Santiago IR and the third features the secret preamp.
 
Joker said:
I did a little comparison between the normal tone, Santiago IR engaged and the Secret Preamp engaged:



Only very light limiting was applied to bring the level up without even the slightest bit of gain reduction. It might still be a little quiet for some, but I wanted to preserve as much of the original tone as I could.

The first one is just the amp and cab, the second one features the Santiago IR and the third features the secret preamp.
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They all sound the same to me. 🤷‍♂️
 
iaresee said:
They all sound the same to me. 🤷‍♂️
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The difference is subtle, you have to listen to it at higher volumes in order to perceive these subtleties. I can definitely feel a difference when the pedal is on. The attack is slightly different and the overall tone becomes a bit firmer.
 
No doubt ..., it's subtle ....

To my 60 year old ears I hear the following:
1.) No Preamp - the brightest tone ....
2.) Santiago's IR - a slight roll-off in the highs ....
3.) Secret Preamp - same roll-off in the highs w/a little emphasis in the mids ....

Is that what you're hearing too ?

And I'm curious ..., when you say "firmer" are you talking about the preamp changing the "feel" of the Amp ?
 
Joker said:
you have to listen to it at higher volumes in order to perceive these subtleties
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I have it on a comfortable volume here on my nearfields. It's a good listening environment.

Joker said:
The attack is slightly different and the overall tone becomes a bit firmer.
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Did you not re-amp this with the same pre-recorded signal for each take?

What happens if you use the same re-amp signal for each take? Keep it to just pedal-amp-cab. No reverb or anything else. Record each take on a separate track and then phase invert the non-amp-cab takes and see what the interference looks like when you mix them. Is there much content left after you do that? That's the subtle difference the pedal provides.

I'm sure it's a wee bit. I'm just not convinced it's much more than a placebo.
 
iaresee said:
I'm sure it's a wee bit. I'm just not convinced it's much more than a placebo.
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It's definitely more than a placebo ..., and the effect gets more and more pronounced as you increase the gain ( like w/a 'dimed' Plexi ) ....
 
R.D. said:
It's definitely more than a placebo ..., and the effect gets more and more pronounced as you increase the gain ( like w/a 'dimed' Plexi ) ....
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Well, if you increase the gain you're increasing the gain, so of course it changes things. But is it any different from increasing the gain on the front of the amp?
 
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iaresee said:
Well, if you increase the gain you're increasing the gain, so of course it changes things. But is it any difference from increasing the gain on the front of the amp?
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What I mean is ..., if you use a higher gain sound to start w/ and then engage/disengage the effect ..., the change in sound is more noticeable ( easier to distinguish ) ....
 
I recorded each take separately. I should learn how to reamp and redo the test.

It's tough to describe the true effect this pedal has. It's an "always on" type of effect that I simply couldn't get with any type of overdrive, eq or compression pedal combo, and i have more than a few pedals.

In this case, history has shown that a couple of great guitar players relied on Echoplexes just for the preamp impact. I'm sure they would've noticed that the difference it makes is negligible, yet they held on to it. They probably hear and perceive the same impact that I do.

The difference between great and amazing is always subtle: How much better does an original 59 les paul sound than a tom murphy custom shop 59? Maybe a tiny little bit. How much better is a tyler custom strat compared to a fender custom shop or a 68 plexi compared to a modern replica? Maybe a tiny little bit.
 
Does anyone know what Drive is used in the tape delay? I often turn it down because I don’t want it, but I would imagine you could just do the opposite throw it in front and see what yet.

(Didn’t Admin Matt make a big echoplex preset about a 18-24 mos ago? Different I understand, but I’d pick at it for clues.)
 
I had a Secret Preamp. Made everything sound warmer without losing clarity, and something I would describe as a 3d feel. It had three modes: bright, dark and in between. The Dunlop was quite good too, the Xotic also but not that 3d thing. So far none of the Axe tricks gave me the impression of either of those three pedals
 
Does the Schaffer Replica fall into the same category as the Echoplex boost / Catalinbread / Secret Preamp?
 
Disclaimer: I have no experience with those pedals

From the description,I would start with tape drive in the drive block. It is a subtle effect, but it tames transients and fill out the tone. Then experiment with the EQs in the drive block to get the final touch. I would assume slight high and low roll-off and maybe a mid bump
 
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